Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jane Musoke-Nteyafas (3rd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. While opinions are somewhat divided, the "delete" arguments are stronger: they discuss in some depth the sources (or lack thereof) covering the subject, while the "keep" side asserts notability, but except for Beccaynr they do not really explain which sources they base this view on.  Sandstein  22:07, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Jane Musoke-Nteyafas
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log )

We are back to this entry again. After being deleted in January 2018, the subject of this thin biography managed to enlist another contributor to add her to this encyclopedia again -- quite common a practice on Upwork and Reddit. I move that this entry be deleted, once again, for non-notability and it's creator be investigated. The only notability criteria is participation in obscure beauty pageants, supposed contributions to some newspapers (for which there is no evidence), and the claim that she is a poet. Yet, a Google search reveals that this "poet" has not been published anywhere significant other than platforms that accept all submissions -- platforms I submitted to as a 16-year-old "poet". The quick Google search also reveals nothing notable about the subject of this entry, other than vanity profiles they've created. There are many prominent Ugandans who deserve entries on this platform; this is not one of them. This person lacks any notability criteria at all and is, at best, a vain self-promoter. Cartney23 (talk) 18:28, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Articles for deletion/Log/2020 December 22.  —cyberbot I   Talk to my owner :Online 18:33, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone  18:36, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone  18:36, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ontario-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone  18:36, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Poetry-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone  18:36, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Journalism-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone  18:36, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Beauty pageants-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone  18:37, 22 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete the discussion we had two years ago produced the right result. I still think it is high time we start making every new article go through the AfC process.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:21, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment: I don't know what is meant by the claim that "the subject of this thin biography managed to enlist another contributor to add her to this encyclopedia again -- quite common a practice on Upwork and Reddit". To the best of my knowledge, I've never communicated with the subject of this biography. And if you'd like to investigate me, that would be lovely, but it would have been even lovelier to have pinged me first. Dsp13 (talk) 21:26, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep - Additional research and updates to the article seem to support WP:BASIC, including because "multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability." Musoke-Nteyafas appears to have a multi-faceted, multi-national career, and there appear to be additional references available, including based on information included in the recently-added 2007 UGPulse profile. Beccaynr (talk) 01:17, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep. The edit and deletion histories seem a bit overrated in the deletion intro. We don't do spite keep or delete but look at articles and subjects "as is". And "as is" it currently passes the WP:GNG. Even without WP:NEXIST. So the choice is easy. gidonb (talk) 22:26, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
 * BTW I'm very much in favor of more articles on Uganda and Ugandans. Especially historical figures. gidonb (talk) 01:35, 25 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment: To the creator of the entry in discussion, it was my intention to ping you but it was hard enough working with this encyclopedia's outdated and archaic procedures to get it here, and I was not about to waste another hour figuring out other things. Same goes for the comment above this one on Ugandan historical figures; simplify stuff around here and many of us will contribute more. That said, irrelevant entries like the one in discussion, backed by "authoritative" sources like Ugpulse, convince most of us (Ugandans) that the "expertise" and "knowledge" that counts here is that of foreigners who could care less about what really matters. As for "spite deletions", maybe enlist actual experts on certain areas to sign off on articles concerning those areas instead of any Tom, Dick, and Harry -- and article creators hired off Upwork and Reddit. The subject of this deletion discussion has never been notable in Uganda. Cartney23 (talk) 18:57, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment To clarify my comment above, the additions to the article also include sources supporting Canadian notability, including Musoke-Nteyafas being included in a published anthology (T-Dot Griots: An Anthology of Toronto's Black Storytellers), cited as a cultural critic in the Toronto Star, and her work for a Toronto-based African-Canadian magazine. Other additions to the article include that Musoke-Nteyafas has also been published by Black Academy Press, and her art has been featured and commented on by York University. More information about her inclusion in a poetry anthology is also now included, because it was the subject of reporting that explains how Dr. Chimdi Maduagwu, a senior lecturer in the Department of English at the University of Lagos, selected her work for inclusion in his self-published collection. The UGPulse profile describes Musoke-Nteyafas as "an inspiration to many people," and lists a variety of her other works that could be researched for potential further additions to the article. Beccaynr (talk) 20:16, 27 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete - not finding enough in-depth coverage from independent reliable sources to show that she meets WP:GNG.  Onel 5969  TT me 14:11, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep per gidonb. The edit history is irrelevant and the article demonstrates that the subject passes WP:GNG. pburka (talk) 15:44, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete as I don’t see enough significant coverage in reliable sources for GNG. A lot of these sources are not reliable at all. Just blogs or primary sources. I think there should be a rule on Wikipedia that if an article has been deleted twice it should automatically be SALTed until an administrator gives permission, along with being presented a proper, well-sourced argument for it to be allowed to be recreated. Trillfendi (talk) 17:00, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * This article has twice been discussed in the past and has only once been deleted. gidonb (talk) 16:53, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Barkeep49 (talk) 02:14, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment As support for WP:BASIC notability, I have added two reviews from  NOW Magazine in Toronto to the article - one is for the T-Dot Griots anthology and the other is for an art exhibit that featured Musoke-Nteyafas's work. Beccaynr (talk) 03:04, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment While searching only under "Nteyafas," I also found an in-depth NOW Magazine article about Musoke-Nteyafas' participation in the Miss AfriCanada 2000 pageant, and I have added it to the article. Beccaynr (talk) 03:31, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete Breaking it down, the notability has to come from somewhere, but it's hard to identify exactly where. She is a beauty pageant winner, but where the contest is non notable, that in itself isn't a whole lot to go on. She's had short pieces published in an anthology and a journal, but as an author or creative that wouldn't fulfil WP:Author. I don't think WP:Basic is fulfilled either. The only significant coverage I can find are two online profile articles which are a bit dubious in terms of reliability, and a third article referring to a 2000 beauty pageant. Significantly human interest reporting is often not considered as reliable, and at least one source isn't independent since it appears that she writes for the source/the article is a profile of a writer. --Vitalis196 (talk) 19:25, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, gidonb (talk) 12:18, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment I have added information about a book of short stories published by Musoke-Nteyafas, and information from a review of the book, to the article. I also added information from a reference about Musoke-Nteyafas' participation in an art-related fundraiser, and a reference to her poetry in the Chicken Bones Journal. These additions appear to offer more support for WP:BASIC notability, which reflects Musoke-Nteyafas' multi-faceted career as a writer and artist. As to the notability of the Miss AfriCanada award, it seems notable because it was subject to in-depth, independent, reliable reporting that offered commentary about the event and Musoke-Nteyafas, per WP:GNG. Beccaynr (talk) 19:34, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment I have added information about Musoke-Nteyafas' participation in a band, including a review of a 2016 album; this appears to be additional critical attention that supports notability per WP:CREATIVE. Beccaynr (talk) 20:31, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment u|Beccaynr With regards to the Miss AfriCanada award, Wikipeida policy relating to events like this is that while the event may be notable, someone is not notable on the basis that they won a competition or award. Beyond that, while you've located a lot of webpages which mention this person's name, the vast majority are not significant coverage. Of the twenty-two sources we're up to right now, only a couple of them are actually significant, in depth coverage of the person in question, the vast majority of the rest are relatively minor mentions or web pages which might not be considered reliable under WP:Reliability. Simply adding more sources doesn't make them more notable, and it makes this article's issue with WP:Puffery worse!Vitalis196 (talk) 21:07, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment To clarify my comment above, I should have referred to the in-depth coverage of Musoke-Nteyafas' participation in the Miss AfriCanada event by an independent and reliable source as contributing to her notability (and I should have noted that the source also provides independent biographical coverage). I also think that many of the additions I have made to the article help address the concerns raised by the nom, and show that over time, Musoke-Nteyafas has received critical attention from a variety of independent and reliable sources during her writer/artist/musician career that demonstrate notability, particularly per WP:BASIC and WP:CREATIVE. I have also added links about Musoke-Nteyafas' addition to The Black Canadian Network Black Canadian Awards National Wall of Role Models in 2014, which further seems to support her notability. Beccaynr (talk) 03:18, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vaticidalprophet (talk) 08:53, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete every source I looked at raised questions: is this a reputable publication? Is this significant coverage or trivial coverage? Overall I did not see anything that was significant coverage in a reputable publication. Inclusion of items like the Canadian refugee board research document is really not helping things. Possibly (talk) 01:42, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment The Canadian refugee board research document could be deleted, because significant coverage from a reliable source has been added to the article to verify Musoke-Nteyafas' participation in the Miss AfriCanada contest, as noted above, so that source is no longer needed. Beccaynr (talk) 05:35, 29 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.