Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jangladesh (3rd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. While the hoax concerns appear to have been addressed, there is not a clear consensus that there's reliable source material at the moment. At the same time, there isn't a clear consensus to delete the article, and conversations about a rename, or redirect should continue editorially. Star  Mississippi  16:38, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Jangladesh
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

The topic—if not a hoax—is not notable. Not a single reliable source has bothered to document the existence of any such region. TrangaBellam (talk) 15:25, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. TrangaBellam (talk) 15:25, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. TrangaBellam (talk) 15:25, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete - no reliable sources proferred in support of the region/term even after passing some older deletion nominations. Shyamal (talk) 16:21, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
 * PS: the nearest thing that comes to it is a region known as "Janglu" - and also some titles for some local chiefs - see this Shyamal (talk) 15:23, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename as Jangaldesh as there is no reliable source for the spelling that rhymes with Bangladesh... Shyamal (talk) 05:07, 28 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete Although there are some reliable sources which mentions the area Jangladesh or Janglapradesh as it was known then but I think its coverage or importance is not that much to have its own article, WP:GNG issue. Sajaypal007 (talk) 15:08, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
 * PS: Struck out 'Delete' vote, as per discussion below. Sajaypal007 (talk) 13:22, 29 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete No reliable sources that support the contention that such a region ever existed. --RegentsPark (comment) 19:05, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete Obvious hoax. LSGH (talk) (contributions) 04:59, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment – Note that the Rajasthan's historic north-western region in question is known by multiple similar names, e.g. Jangal Desh, Jangal Pradesh, Jangaladesh, Janglu, Jangal, etc. A cursory search with these terms shows a large number of results at Google Books and I don't have time to check them now. But I can provide relevant quotes from an academic source which is already cited in this article:




 * Its page nos. 57 and 76 also contain some relevant details about it, but I am not quoting them due to copyright issues. Note that I have just glanced through some pages of the above source, rather than reading them. And I am only posting here to show that this is not a hoax. So this needs a second look. But I guess we do need some coverage in other scholarly sources for meeting WP:GNG. - NitinMlk (talk) 20:47, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Partially agree with . As I already mentioned Jangladesh was real name of the region and it is no hoax. Rathores of Bikaner did subdue Jats of the area and took control of this region. The Bikaner Kingdom even in later times was called Jangal desh. As pointed out by @NitinMlk, there is problem of different spellings, in my opinion more common spelling is Jangal desh or Jangaldesh and not Jangladesh. Quick google book search for Jangal desh and Jangaldesh not Jangladesh gives quite a number of books mentioning it in relation with historical region. If I remember correctly, the rulers of Bikaner till later times were called Jangal dhar Badshah i.e. Lord of Jangaldesh. Sajaypal007 (talk) 12:49, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
 * My bad, it is not a hoax: was too confident to bother rechecking Kothiyal. That being said, GNG is not met: there is nothing to write apart from that in bardic chronicles, Rajasthan (or rather, a part of it) is frequently mentioned as Jangaldesh. TrangaBellam (talk) 20:53, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
 * No, only a particular north-western region of Rajasthan (rather than the whole of it) is historically known by this name. A quick search at Google Books shows that this academic source also has some details about it. But I don't have access to it. Anyway, you are way better than me at searching sources. So please do have a look at them if you get some time. Thanks. - NitinMlk (talk) 21:07, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I didn't get time to look at the Google books search results, but I have just looked at the other sources cited in the article. One of them contains a chapter authored by Dr. Jibraeil, who was an assistant professor of history at Aligarh Muslim University (AMU): . His research was focused on Rajasthan and the revised version of his thesis was published by Routledge in 2018: . So I guess his cited chapter seems fine with in-text attribution. I will check its content in a day or two. Note that he was one of the multiple AMU faculty members who died this year due to COVID-19: see, , , etc.


 * , the article's title is not an issue, as the page can be moved to Jangal desh if that's its WP:COMMONNAME. This region is mentioned in many Rajasthan-related articles. So a short and well-sourced article would be helpful. But at the same time, we need inputs from someone who is well-versed in Rajasthan's history of that era. - NitinMlk (talk) 23:44, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
 * , I consider myself as having good grasp on Rajasthan History, did my graduation and PG in it. As I looked at more and more sources, I kind of think that my vote for deletion was made in haste, although I did mention that the region is mentioned as such in history books. Can I change my vote from delete to merely a comment, with more inputs I can make better decision. Although I am little busy for next couple of weeks, I will atleast list as many sources I can find on this below. Sajaypal007 (talk) 05:42, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Added 3-4 sources on Jangladesh page alongwith quotes, copy pasting those here, Jangal Desh   Dr Dasharatha Sharma was a famous historian from Rajasthan. Rima Hooja is also archaeologist turned Historian. Karni Singh was former Maharaja of Bikaner i.e. the same region which was called Jangal desh and he also studied history from Delhi University. K.R. Qanungo was also a historian and wrote many books. Here 1 another famous historian of Rajasthan G.N.Sharma mentioned Jangaldesh in his map. Another historian Ram Vallabh Somani 2 in his book Prithvi raj and his times mention the region of Jangal desh. If time permits, I will add more sources that mention the region. Sajaypal007 (talk) 06:30, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Just remembered, the famous Chirwa inscription of Guhilot prince Samarsimha, states that Jaitrasimha's (his grandfather) pride could not be curbed by rulers of Malwa, Gujarat, Maru and Jangala. Sajaypal007 (talk) 06:42, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
 * , the WP:!VOTE can be changed whenever you want, and the AfD can be relisted if you need some more time. But I am not familiar with Rajasthan's history of that era. BTW, Jibraeil's chapter does have relevant details, which I will hopefully quote here tomorrow. - NitinMlk (talk) 19:42, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

As the title indicates, Jibraeil's chapter is about the Churu region, rather than Jangaldesh, although Churu was part of Jangaldesh. Anyway, here's a relevant quote from the book:



- NitinMlk (talk) 20:28, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Churu and Bikaner were both part of Kingdom of Bikaner, Rathores since Rao Bika ruled over this part. So historically Churu is also considered as part of Jangal Pradesh. Sajaypal007 (talk) 13:27, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Long story short, Jangaldesh used to be the old name of a particular region in Rajasthan which was ruled by Jats, before felling to Bika. We know nothing except this. So, why not merge to History of Rajasthan? TrangaBellam (talk) 06:44, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Agree with TrangaBellam. The term is very sparsely cited and, at best, deserves a mention somewhere. Not an article of its own. --RegentsPark (comment) 15:21, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   21:02, 27 December 2021 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   09:27, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment -- I believe that "desh" means something like province. I do not know the distinction between it and pradesh (also province).  However differences of name according to whether these words are added to the name Jangla and variations in the vowels (due to differences in transliteration and not significant.  The footnotes seem to have quotations using the name, so that it seems to be real.  On the otehtr hand I would caution against the expansion of this article beyond its current length.  Peterkingiron (talk) 00:24, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Comment. I came upon this debate when patrolling Special:PendingChanges and, frankly, I don't know. But if one looks at the Bikaner article's cited sources, this [] seems to make it clear that Jangladesh, at a minimum, is not a hoax and has some support from quasi-official Indian sources. Fiachra10003 (talk) 11:48, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I've removed the source from the article. Rajasthan tourism is not WP:RS. --RegentsPark (comment) 17:03, 8 January 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.