Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Japanese Ministers, Envoys and Ambassadors to Germany


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was Keep. Davewild 18:09, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Japanese Ministers, Envoys and Ambassadors to Germany

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List of mostly redlinks and/or nonlinks linked from only one substantive site. Little work has been done on this article in nearly 14 months and it's difficult to see how it's notable within the EN Wikipedia. If anything, notable Envoys, etc can be linked from the parent articles but the usefulness of this list is not immediately apparent. Its creator has not edited in the last 11 months. -- Rodhullandemu  (talk - contribs) 23:48, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


 * To closing admin: please see also Articles for deletion/List of German ministers, envoys and ambassadors to Japan. --Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 22:33, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Looks like this needs a lot of editing, indeed. However, I can't find anything similarly complete in the net and it is probably helpful for those working on J-G relations. Don't see why it should be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.82.55.76 (talk) 05:37, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Tikiwont 11:16, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete Not because an article about foreign relations between Japan and Germany wouldn't be worthwhile, not just because the combinations are infinite (i.e., Paraguay's ambassadors to Belgium), but because this will never be much. This is essentially a chronological list of names, with no clue as to what any of these individuals contributed.  Saburo Kurusu (1939-41) is the only significant name on the list; he was in Berlin as Japan's representative when the Axis pact was signed, and he has an article of his own.  Even the excellent article Ambassadors from the United States limits itself to "selected" (i.e. well-known) former ambassadors. Mandsford 12:31, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. While this article's use may be apparent in the future, its too incomplete currently. Furthermore, it does not cite any sources and it has been like that for quite some time now (since January 2007). And I agree with Mansford; its just a list of names, there's no mention of what the officials did on their trip to Germany. For all we know, they might as well be on vacation :). -- Zachary crimsonwolf  14:14, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes the article could use a proper introduction, some formatting and (better) references, but these are not ground for deletion for this particular article. --Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 10:58, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete and categorize; on a more humorous note, Mandsford, the number isn't actually infinite, just n^2... But this sort of thing makes perfect sense for categories - Category:Japanese ambassadors, subcats Japanese ambassador to Germany, etc. And you can hardly argue that Japanese ambassadors to Germany were unimportant given the circumstances of WWII. --136.223.3.130 14:30, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You are correct, 136. The combinations only seem infinite and boring.  In reality, they are not infinite, but still boring.  Going back to Saburo Kurusu, I think he would probably be the only resident of the category of Japanese ambassadors and the subcategory of Japanese ambassadors to Germany.  No ambassadors is unimportant during their time of service; only a select few of them rate more than a footnote in world history.  Mandsford 23:31, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletions.   —Fg2 10:45, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep, I fail to see the ground for deletion here:
 * 1) Not for english Wikipedia? Please remember this in an English language Wikipedia, not a Wikipedia about English topics.
 * 2) Useless? A chronological list of ambassadors can be very usefull from a historical perspective.
 * 3) Redlinks? Either these are articles that can be created, or the wikilinks can be removed.
 * 4) Boring? Thats just in the eye of the beholder.
 * 5) Categorize? This is a chronological list, which can never be categorized without losing information.
 * Comment to new voters and closing admin, I today changed the article to have better formatting, referencing and show more useful information in English. --Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 14:24, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep The individual Ambasssadors, though not the interim ones, are arguably notable--that we havent gotten around to the articles is presumably temporary. The en WP is the WP in the English language, and covers all the world, as do the WPs in other languages, subject only to the limitation ofthere being people to writethe articles. DGG (talk) 17:43, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, John254 00:52, 12 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep - clearly encyclopedic and complete list. If somebody created stubs for all the people, the original submitter probably wouldn't have noticed. Send to appropriate WikiProject/Experts. Lars T. 01:28, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep - I would be happy to tidy up the dates and rearrange the table more logically (i.e. name - position - date), but will wait until the decision is formally made to keep the article before taking the time to do this. --DAJF 01:52, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment It would be a greater service if you would do some research to briefly summarize what any of these individuals contributed during their representation of Japan in Berlin and Bonn. Saburo Kurusu is well known. I'm sure that the story of Samejima Naonobu (first ever Japanese envoy to Germany, at the time of Bismarck) must have been very interesting.  Sugimura Kōichi and Funakoshi Mitsunojō were present as World War I broke out; Matsuzō Nagai the first after Hitler became Chancellor; Kōhei Teraoka the first after Japan and Germany were free again to control their own foreign relations; I can't help but wonder, however, whether this will ever be more than a list of names.  There seems to be no expectation that anyone supporting this list would ever care enough try to research or try to find out anything else about Samejima, Sugimura, Funakoshi, Matsuzo, or Kohei.  And frankly, if you don't actually care about what these gentlemen accomplished, then you're making a mockery of their careers as a bit of trivia. Mandsford 02:49, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep: Needs some work, but it is a well written list, with an established subject. - Rjd0060 04:58, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep: These are very useful lists for those creating biographies. Many notable people are ambassadors and vice versa. This is not an infinite list. Number of countries squared is in thousands not millions. Victuallers 13:44, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep lists of ambassadors are credible lists. This might not be a great one and the title might need to be paired down a little but there are comparable lists of English ambassadors as those sorts of lists are more favoured systemically. MLA 15:41, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep - high reference usefulness - obviously would be improved by more inf on named individuals, which presumably will accrete in the course of time. HeartofaDog (talk) 16:26, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep One of the cirteria for lists is indeed useful. The individual people on it do not have to be notable in the sense of WP:N--just the overall topic needs to be, and it clearly is. The category will not do as well, for there is resistance to considering each individual ambassador as notable. (Personally, I think they are, as the highest relevant office) But even if we did have all the individual articles, a list would be the clearest way to organize them, for it would provide the sequence--not just the names, which would not generally be as meaningful to most users.DGG (talk) 08:04, 13 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.