Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jasmine Directory


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Even if we discount the participation of Robertgombos there's no consensus to delete this article.  A  Train talk 20:55, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Jasmine Directory

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Non-notable website. It doesn't appear to have attracted substantial coverage in reliable sources, as required to meet WP:GNG or WP:NWEB. It was created by an undisclosed paid editor and since maintained by the site owner. SmartSE (talk) 22:46, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Websites-related deletion discussions. L3X1  ◊distænt write◊  23:24, 30 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep I can improve The article was substantially improved by adding more reliable citations as highlighted in my last comment. I would like to improve the article using (some of) the references listed below, if I am allowed because of my COI. I won't touch any of the current statements, neither add more - since the request edit template is the proper way for doing that. I only want to know if I am allowed to backup certain statements created by other editors before the article got through the AfC process. Some of the edits proposed via two separate Edit Requests were answered and implemented. Also, ce, cleanup and NPOV addresed by independent editors and one admin. Robertgombos (talk) 15:42, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Moreover, I'd like to share my opinion on this issue. I hope you won't get bored reading the entire story, often I'm asked to shut up because I tend to talk too much. So, please accept my apologies. I have this Wikipedia account for about 5 years. As I already stated on my User page, I have been an editor at the AOL's Former ODP project DMOZ (Closed; relaunched as "Curlie"), where I'm an editor. Last year, in May, I have discovered (got a visitor or two originating from Wikipedia, saw it in Google Analytics) that there is an entry for Jasmine Directory.

After the entry was created other editors improved it and verified the sources, corrected some errors. Then, more editors came and restructured entirely the (already) published page, corrected some more errors and verified again the sources. I haven't touched the article at all. On 5 July 2017, 13:28, the article was moved to the Draft space and the connected contributor and notability tags were added to the entry. Yes, it's my standard procedure as well if I suspect something when reviewing articles.

Back then, I headed to the Teahouse section asking around on how to proceed. One of the administrators,, on his talk page on 12:28, 6 July 2017 (UTC) said: (citing: "If you choose to declare your conflict of interest openly, on the talk page of the draft, or on your own user page, or both you may add sources to the draft. You may then ask for an AFC review of the draft. From there on things will be up to the reviewer.". I've followed entirely the COI procedure, by adding the required connected contributor to the draft's talk page as well as an extended disclosure to my User Page and the proper tag as well.

(Here is a link to the discussion).

Until that point, I haven't edited Jasmine Directory at all.

So, as I was advised to, I began working on the draft. When I finished, I used the MirC channel and requested for help from other editors to take a look and let me know if something got out of my sight. Another editor,, suggested me to remove two references and a statement. I did that too as it's visible in the edits history log.

I submitted the draft to the AfC process as suggested "you may add sources to the draft. You may then ask for an AFC review of the draft. From there on things will be up to the reviewer" as well as per WP:COIEDIT "you should put new articles through the Articles for Creation (AfC) process instead of creating them directly;". One of the AfC reviewers, SwisterTwister, at 22:46 on 12 July 2017, reviewed and accepted the submission. Extract from the entry edit history log:

[SwisterTwister moved page Draft:Jasmine Directory to Jasmine Directory: Publishing accepted Articles for creation submission (AFCH 0.9)]

After that step, I only corrected a few punctuation errors, added four more references and corrected minor typos (I haven’t altered in any way the meaning of any phrase or statement previously approved during the AfC process.). That was all my contribution to the already checked and approved entry (and it stayed that way, I haven't touched the entry) and I consider (and I hope I’m right) that I've respected WP:PSCOI: "If there's a mistake in your article: For minor spelling, grammar, or entirely uncontentious factual corrections, fix it yourself (click Edit at the top right of the page and Save your changes). For any substantial changes, or changes that anyone might find contentious, seek input from other editors and let them decide whether to do it."

Below are some highlights from the page edits history to sustain what I've said so far. However, feel free to parse the entire history logs on the entries’ page.


 * 21:40, 10 May 2017? Julyo (talk | contribs) . . (5,835 bytes) (+132) . . (copy-editing) (undo)
 * 00:40, 11 May 2017? Julyo (talk | contribs) . . (6,187 bytes) (+352) . . (checked some references) (undo)
 * 01:14, 12 May 2017? Nsk92 (talk | contribs) . . (6,213 bytes) (+26) . . (Added tags to the page using Page Curation (orphan)) (undo)

...


 * 13:28, 5 July 2017, Justlettersandnumbers (talk | contribs) . . (8,634 bytes) (+95) . . (AFC draft (via script)) (undo)
 * 13:28, 5 July 2017, Justlettersandnumbers (talk | contribs) m . . (8,539 bytes) (0) . . (Justlettersandnumbers moved page Jasmine Directory to Draft:Jasmine Directory without leaving a redirect: Undersourced, incubate in draftspace (via script)) (undo)
 * 13:28, 5 July 2017, Justlettersandnumbers (talk | contribs) . . (8,539 bytes) (+63) . . (Added COI and notability tags to article (TW)) (undo)

...


 * 21:23, 12 July 2017, Robertgombos (talk | contribs) . . (10,414 bytes) (-2,463)? . . (Removing two statements and the related references as suggested on the IRC channel "It reads sort of like an attempt to pitch web directories to the reader".) (undo)
 * 21:35, 12 July 2017, Robertgombos (talk | contribs) . . (10,565 bytes) (+151)? . . (undo)
 * 22:04, 12 July 2017, Robertgombos (talk | contribs) . . (10,800 bytes) (+235)? . . (Fixed minor formatting and stylistic issues.) (undo)
 * 22:46, 12 July 2017, SwisterTwister (talk | contribs) m . . (10,800 bytes) (0) . . (SwisterTwister moved page Draft:Jasmine Directory to Jasmine Directory: Publishing accepted Articles for creation submission (AFCH 0.9)) (undo)
 * 00:26, 13 July 2017, Robertgombos (talk | contribs) . . (10,771 bytes) (-29)? . . (Hist meege request) (undo)
 * 04:14, 13 July 2017, Anthony Appleyard (talk | contribs) . . (10,733 bytes) (-38)? . . (Draft:Jasmine Directory has only one edit, and that edit is a redirect.) (undo)
 * 07:47, 13 July 2017, Robertgombos (talk | contribs) . . (10,739 bytes) (+6)? . . (minor spacing fix.) (undo)
 * 07:55, 13 July 2017, Robertgombos (talk | contribs) . . (10,735 bytes) (-4)? . . (Categories not showing correctly for some reason) (undo)
 * 19:29, 13 July 2017, Howicus (talk | contribs) . . (10,673 bytes) (-62)? . . (Removing AFC template) (undo)

...

So, basically, the article was created, moved to draft, I've placed the COI tags properly as suggested, improved the draft as proposed, suggested it via the AfC process as suggested and it was approved. I've followed strictly the WP:COIEDIT procedure and corrected some extra commas, empty spaces. And that was it.

Yesterday, the entry was AfD-ed and once again the COI and notability tags were added.

...

(cur | prev) 22:46, 30 April 2018 Smartse (talk | contribs). . (12,839 bytes) (+430). . (Nominated for deletion; see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jasmine Directory. (TW)) (undo) (cur | prev) 22:43, 30 April 2018 Smartse (talk | contribs). . (12,409 bytes) (+59). . (Added COI and notability tags to article (TW)) (undo)

I thought the COI issue was solved when I placed the connected contributor tag on the entry's talk page and my User page and got through the AfC process and the examination of my edits history. It seems that I was wrong...!?

As for the notability tag (an issue which during the AfC review process was reviewed), over the last year I've gathered several sources and references (some totally independent, some representing various writer's or university publication's opinion), in addition to the ones already listed ones on the article's page. In some references below, there are comprehensive full-page reviews and opinions focusing solely on the topic, in others there are only several phrases referring to the topic (I don't count on those too much).

There are a few books referencing the already live statements from the live entry, one written in Turkish and four others in Romanian.

Here's a journal, as well.

Other sources besides the above ones, and the several books and journals already cited on the Wikipedia existing entry, here are several sources that are not mentioned (some of them, yes, might be considered trivial mentions, however, most web directories listed under the Category:Web directories category could all easily fall under WP:WEB because a web directory is a source of mainly manually human-added resources and anyone writing about them includes a review of more than one. So, many articles, books, journals are mentioning them in various contexts providing only a few phrases about them.

There are as well several comprehensive independent reviews made by various industry influencers, independent of the subject, with a (decent to high) reputation ; however, all listed resources state no more encyclopedic information than what's already listed on Jasmine Directory or maybe some information [like the benefits of the directory] which, in my opinion might sound like advertisement (eg. very good, excellent, etc) and definitely Wikipedia it's not a good fit for that kind of subjective opinions). Here are some of the references.

Here are some more independent reviews by The WebDirectoryReviews.Org, as per WP:INDEPENDENT, of Jasmine Directory. The organization used to scale and rate 80-90 directories each quarter. Jasmine Directory was rated among the top 10 eight times out of eight different reviews. Unfortunately, the resource is not operating anymore; however, I managed to get some archives from the Internet Archive:


 * 1) Feb 3013 Review
 * 2) Jun 2013 Review
 * 3) Sep 2013 Review
 * 4) Nov 2013, Review
 * 5) Mar 2014, Review
 * 6) Jun 2014, Review
 * 7) Dec 2014, Review
 * 8) Sep 2015, Review

With all due respect, I consider that I have just followed the instructions given by the editors and administrators during this entire process. There is a lot to learn by reading all the policies and I am committed to further improve my editing capabilities (please see my Articles I created section from my User page).

I would like to use the request edit template to address the highlighted issue, however, I think it's wiser to deal with this Afd first given the COI related circumstances. Besides, there isn't much information that could be added to the already published statements besides various appreciations from the cited books and articles. The web based references mainly sustain what is already published on the (still) live article.

I know how COI editors are seen on Wikipedia, and if you feel like I violated any policy by following the instruction I've talked about, please feel free to express your opinions accordingly. I am very well aware of the standard procedure.

Ever since, I've improved some and created some Art related entries which you may find highlighted on my User Page. Thank you for reading this.