Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jason Heroux


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Doczilla @SUPERHEROLOGIST 21:26, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Jason Heroux

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

WP:BLP of a poet, not properly sourced as having any strong claim to passing WP:AUTHOR. The notability claim on offer here is that he's poet laureate of a midsized city, which is not a role that guarantees automatic inclusion in Wikipedia without WP:GNG-worthy coverage -- but the sourcing is not getting him over GNG, as it consists of three primary sources that are not support for notability at all and one article from a community hyperlocal news website, which isn't enough coverage to get him over the bar all by itself. Nothing stated here is "inherently" notable enough to exempt him from having to be referenced considerably better than this. Bearcat (talk) 12:54, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep I've made some additions to the article, including references to a couple of reviews (in Books in Canada and Arc Poetry Magazine, two well-respected Canadian literary publications) and shortlistings for awards, and a quote from a profile in the Kingston Whig-Standard, which is one of Canada's larger newspapers. I note for what it's worth that almost all poets laureate listed in the Poet Laureate article who don't have articles are redlinked (such that if the Heroux article were to be deleted he would revert to being redlinked there); if being a poet laureate is insufficient for notability then those redlinks ought to be removed. In my view being selected for Best Canadian Poetry in English in three different years is probably sufficient to demonstrate notability on its own, as that series arguably pretty much defines who is a notable Canadian poet.Cincinnatus c (talk) 06:45, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The fact that the Kingston Whig-Standard is "one of Canada's larger newspapers" does not override the fact that since Jason Heroux is poet laureate of Kingston, coverage in the KWS merely represents local interest coverage in a local interest context, not evidence of wider recognition — the fact that one article exists in his own city's main daily newspaper still isn't a GNG pass if nearly all of the other sourcing in the article is still of the primary variety, and being selected for Best Canadian Poetry anthologies (no matter how many times) doesn't constitute an article-clinching notability claim until media write independent third-party analytical content treating "poet selected for anthology" as a news story. And incidentally, the redlinks you're talking about in poet laureate were all added to it just one week ago by an editor who was simply copy-pasting the same information he was already adding to brand new and badly-sourced "Municipal poets laureate in [Canadian province]" lists at the same time, and thus do not constitute evidence that Wikipedia routinely accepts all municipal poets laureate as "inherently" notable. Bearcat (talk) 11:18, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
 * There's a dozen other references in the article. Instead of nominating for deletion, why not add another reference - like this one a couple of decades ago in the Toronto Star? Nfitz (talk) 15:00, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
 * A dozen other references in the article, most of which are primary sources that are not support for notability. For instance, a poet laureate of a city is not "inherently" notable just because he has a "staff" profile on the self-published website of the city, a writer is not "inherently" notable just because his books have profiles on the self-published website of their own publishing company or directory entries in WorldCat or Google Books, and on and so forth.
 * And while the ReLit Awards aren't nothing, they aren't highly meganotable enough that the mere presence of the person's name in a ReLit nominees list would confer an instant inclusion freebie on a writer who wasn't otherwise being sourced properly. Far more past ReLit nominees don't have articles yet than do, and the ones who do generally either (a) won it, or (b) have other notability claims stronger than just a ReLit nomination alone. Bearcat (talk) 13:20, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
 * If there's a dozen other references, and only most of them aren't GNG, how is this an issue? Nfitz (talk) 00:24, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 21:25, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Poetry and Canada. Bearcat (talk) 12:54, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. North America1000 14:09, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep - well referenced. Nfitz (talk) 22:18, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Not well-referenced at all; it's referenced principally to primary sources that are not support for notability, such as "staff" profiles and directory entries. Bearcat (talk) 13:21, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
 * An article does not need to be principally referenced to GNG sources. It needs simply 2 or 3; the others can be primary. Nfitz (talk) 00:21, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Keep The Whig and the Toronto Star stories mentioned above are reliable, the Quill and Quire sources are also very good sources. Also a review in Event Magazine, a poetry magazine with a long history in Canada and another in the Malahat Reviews . Oaktree b (talk) 23:31, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep Looks like notable poet to me. After a quick search i found this, this and this. Nupamjo (talk) 10:36, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Notability is not established by "staff" profiles on the self-published website of the person's own employer, or by his own books having directory entries on Google Books, or by pieces of his own writing about other things. Notability can only be established by reliable source coverage in media, in which he is the subject of coverage and analysis being written by other people. Bearcat (talk) 13:20, 21 August 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.