Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jason Naidovski


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete per near unanimous consensus-- JForget  23:04, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Jason Naidovski

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Football player who fails WP:ATHLETE as he has never played in a fully pro league, and consensus is that youth caps do not confer notability. Was originally prodded, but removed with the rationale "fair enough if he was no longer at an A-League club and never made any appearances, he was only just signed by the Jets though and has made appearances in pre-season friendlies", which seems to suggest the editor is certain that he'll play, which of course is a WP:CRYSTAL violation. пﮟოьεԻ  5  7  08:29, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * As per WP:POINTY prod removals, I'll also add Ben Kantarovski, Daniel Mullen (footballer) and Andrew Redmayne to this nomination. пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  11:23, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Keep - The player holds a first team position and is under contract in a national professional league. This may be different to English leagues where a the team can have hundreds of players on their books and they are only played in reserves etc. The A-League has a first team squad limit of 23 and the youth league players are registered separately. I am sure that any Australian's will verify my opinion that players such as Jason Naidovski and Ben Kantarovski are notable enough to warrant a WP article. It should also be noted that WP:ATHLETE is guideline not policy. Perhaps other uncapped A-League player articles which are proposed for deletion could also be linked to this page so multiple discussions do not take place. Jared Wiltshire (talk) 08:55, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related deletions. пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  08:29, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * WP:ATHLETE is part of WP:BIO, the most comprehensive guideline we have to notability of articles on people, and is described as "a generally accepted standard that editors should follow". Therefore to try and say we should ignore it is a little strange. As for other similar articles on A League players with no appearances, there is another going through AfD at the moment: Articles for deletion/Mark Birighitti, which has 10 delete !votes and no keeps. I am also yet to see an English squad with hundreds of players. I would say 23 players is about average for non-Premiership clubs. пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  09:06, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * All I am saying is that I think that some extra consideration needs to be taken in this instance. It seems to me that WP:ATHLETE says that the player should "have competed" so that big clubs with many youth players on their roster do not generate hundreds of non notable articles. However in the case of a small club with a fixed number of first team places (each player has to be nominated at the start of the A-League season) I believe that each player is notable. As far as I know even English Championship clubs (possibly lower) would have far more than 23 players who are eligible to play first team football as all their reserves can also play. Also, nearly all the votes to delete the Mark Birighitti article have been from users with no particular knowledge or interest in the A-League and have they have voted solely on the basis of "It violates the guidelines" or "Delete it like we normally do". I still think these discussions should be merged since they are clearly related and they should all be discussed together. Since you nominated these articles for deletion would you care to do this. Jared Wiltshire (talk) 10:05, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't see the need to. It's pretty clear that the articles should all be deleted according to the guidelines. Also, I was including reserves in the 23 players. Quite simply, this article should not exist. Yes he is a member of the squad, but for all we know he may never play. He may get an injury in training and be out for months and have his contract cancelled. To say that he will definitely play and therefore one day meet WP:ATHLETE criteria is WP:CRYSTAL balling. пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  10:10, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * If you are going to nominate a series of articles for deletion do it properly. There is no way that English clubs do not have more than 23 players, even A-League clubs have more than 23 if you include the youth/reserve team. "This article should not exist" - that is your opinion, if you merge the discussions some more A-League savy users may chip in and offer some more insightful reasons other than "ooh its in the Wikipedia guidelines, it MUST be deleted". I have never said he will definitely play, get your facts straight. Anyway I prefer to contribute constructively to Wikipedia, I dont go around deleting articles which I have no idea about for the fun of it, so I cant be bothered arguing this any further. Jared Wiltshire (talk) 11:10, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I did do it properly - I prodded them, a legitimate procedure. However, as you seem determined to make your point, I have added them to this nomination. пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  11:23, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete He fails the notability criterias that exist (policy or guideline). When he plays in a game at the highest level he will meet the criteria. Until then he simply doesn't. Jasynnash2 (talk) 11:56, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete all without prejudice, as they fail WP:ATHLETE by a long shot having never played in a professional league. --Jimbo[online] 12:16, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete all per nom. GiantSnowman 13:39, 18 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete all per nom. ukexpat (talk) 14:03, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete No justification for retaining until he has first team appearances at A-league level. Murtoa (talk) 03:45, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep Jason Naidovski. Surely there should be separate AFDs for each person as each is different. Jason Naidovski is a striker on the Australian 2008 Olympic team, and and as such meets WP:ATHLETE as he competes at the highest level in amateur sports. The others don't seem to be notable. Nfitz (talk) 22:14, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * He does not meet WP:ATHLETE because football is not an amateur sport in either Australia or at the Olympics. пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  22:17, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh good grief - that's splitting hairs. Clearly anyone in the Olympics is notable. Nfitz (talk) 01:01, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, but he hasn't played at the Olympics. He's played in qualifying matches. пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  08:39, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete all - per nom. – PeeJay 11:28, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete - per nom. Dancarney (talk) 13:47, 25 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.