Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Javon Frazier (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Draftify‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. Seems like the best resolution between those wanting to Keep this article and those who believe it should be Deleted. Please submit to WP:AFC for review when you believe it has overcome problems pointed out in this discussion. Liz Read! Talk! 21:29, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Javon Frazier
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

We need to have another discussion because someone has challenged the soft deletion. The coverage is mostly PR-based, and it still fails to meet WP:GNG. Mercenf (talk) 14:42, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, Games,  and California.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 15:59, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete PR and bizcruft articles don't establish notability. I can't find anything in RS that hasn't been puffed up on this fellow. Oaktree b (talk) 18:30, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep I am representing Javon Frazier, and have received an email from someone saying they were hired to delete his Wikipedia page. I realize this is a conflict of interest on my part, however, I have reason to believe this page is being targeted by someone named Lorenz. I can provide proof of this action if necessary. How should I proceed? JDAgencyHelp
 * Reply at User talk:JDAgencyHelp. Eluchil404 (talk) 02:34, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:30, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep WP:HASREFS I requested this article be undeleted for further work. I am willing to work on it. Looks like it was probably created for-pay initially as user has been banned. As previously stated in request, African American businesspeople are underrepresented on Wikipedia and this individual has moderate level sources, maybe we can improve the article. Forbes already linked, some interviews. Quick exact phrase Google book search returns multiple hits, but needs review. Looks like some citations got deleted in history. Will look into this more soon and vet refs. Autoshotdc (talk) 22:04 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Draftify. This article is a pretty standard professional profile, and definitely requires WP:TNT, as WP:NOTLINKEDIN. Normally without an editor willing to work on the NPOV issues, I would suggest delete (Lack of NPOV is a valid reason to land on deletion when exploring WP:ATD), but since we have an editor willing to work on it, moving to draftspace seems like the best option. &mdash;siro&chi;o 07:18, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Why draftify? Are you going to work on it? The creator was blocked. &mdash; Rhododendrites  talk \\ 17:10, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * An editor in this discussion wants to work on it. &mdash;siro&chi;o 22:36, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete - major contributors to the article were blocked for WP:UPE. The sourcing is a mix of sources about the products (not the person) and promotional/PR pieces. &mdash; Rhododendrites  talk \\ 17:09, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Re draftify/keep: I offered to edit. While current cited coverage on the subject is mediocre, subject has notability in that developing multiple mainstream board games is notable and this is sourced in secondary sources and primary interviews. Was able to find sources that meet GNG in Forbes, Bloomberg, Inc, IMDB and game-centric magazines that are not newswires. Per WP:SNG WP:ENT using interviews should be acceptable as well, but sources will be limited overall given the niche field and nature of entrepreneurship is self promotion. It requires some digging. Thoughts? -Autoshotdc (talk) 17:45 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * please only bold one !vote, to make it easier for closer to keep track of each participant's recommendation. See also WP:AFDFORMAT &mdash;siro&chi;o 22:39, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry! Will fix Autoshotdc (talk) 13:08, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * developing multiple mainstream board games is notable - Wikipedia's term "notable" isn't quite the same as the word implies. In almost all cases, we base notability on what reliable independent sources decide to cover, not on what we collectively say is "important". The full definition of notability is over at WP:N. Developing multiple mainstream board games does not produce notability on Wikipedia. &mdash; Rhododendrites  talk \\ 13:48, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I understand that subject matter does not determine notability for Wikipedia. I realize what I said before was unclear. I was replying in the context of your comment that secondary sources should not focus on products, but the BLPP. For game designers/developers/executives, their mention in most articles cited for notability appears to be tied to the product, first and foremost. I looked for some good examples on which to potentially base a rewrite/edit, and found a few. Looking through WP:GA this article seems like a comparable BLP in terms of subject matter: Asher Vollmer. Most of his secondary sources are related to the product, not the person, as far as I can tell. Most board game designer pages I can find also follow this structure. His citations come from many of the same and similar secondary sources of this article: example Board Game Geek, Game Zone, Polygon, The Verge. Autoshotdc (talk) 20:06, 6 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.