Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jazz in the Park Cluj Napoca


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. While there are some people making good faith arguments in favour of keeping this article, they are not grounded in policy. On the other hand, arguments to delete are firmly grounded. Lankiveil (speak to me) 10:33, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Jazz in the Park Cluj Napoca

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The article includes absolutely no sources of any kind purporting to demonstrate notability, which surely counts against any claim it should be kept. Moreover, searching leaves us essentially empty-handed. Sure, there may be a couple of local sources in venues of dubious reliability, but nothing even in the national press (let alone international), and nothing sustained, hence the thrust of WP:EVENT not being met. - Biruitorul Talk 21:17, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000(talk) 03:48, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000(talk) 03:48, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Romania-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000(talk) 03:48, 30 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete Local event, no lasting significance. Fails WP:EVENT  LGA talk  edits   04:13, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment - sources have been added, but nothing that might change my initial verdict. We now have:
 * Official site (not independent)
 * Organizers (not independent)
 * Myspace page (not valid, per WP:SELFPUB)
 * Blog post (not valid, per WP:SELFPUB)
 * Blog-like post on an events portal (most likely falls foul of WP:RS)
 * News report (even if we consider Pro TV a reliable source, and keep in mind it's the most tabloid-y Romanian TV station, now OTV has been shut down, it's still a routine piece of local coverage, not indicative of deeper significance)
 * In sum: this sounds like it was a nice weekend and plenty of fun for the audience and the performers. However, the bar for inclusion in an encyclopedia is rather higher than that, and I simply see nothing indicating it's been cleared. - Biruitorul Talk 19:25, 30 July 2013 (UTC)


 * This is the best news sources I could locate for the article "Jazz in the Park" because there were no national mentions in national or international newspapers. In my opinion this festival has the potential to grow but only trough promotion. I am willing to fight for keeping this wiki article because it's a free entry event that i enjoyed and I would like to see grow and help other people enjoy the park in a different way. I searched the web and did my human best for adding reliable sources, but the truth is there are none at the moment. sergiu.topan Talk 14:54, 31 July 2013 (UTC)


 * As I previously mentioned, the deletion of this article would only harm a up-and-coming festival that is of local importance for now but is expected to grow. Again, it's a free festival and only by getting the word out more people can benefit from the opportunities it offers. I see no reason for delete. sergiu.topan Talk 14:36, 1 August 2013 (UTC)


 * I understand you have good intentions, but the purpose of Wikipedia is not to promote or to generate notability; it is to record phenomena that are already demonstrably notable through third-party independent sources. - Biruitorul Talk 14:29, 1 August 2013 (UTC)


 * What if the event was notable but it did not receive enough attention from the local and national press because cultural phenomena is not on their agenda? We sacrifice a page like this and many other because of a faulty media system that promote non-values rather than cultural happenings. (On a private note, what I saw there was shocking to me. After 12 AM when the concerts ended, there were no traces of litter on the grass or on the alleys, everything was in the trash cans, and around them since the trash cans were too small. I've never seen such civilized people, but you don't hear that on the news "Participants at jazz in the park festival left the park clean" and you never will. That's just one of the many reasons I want to see this article up.) sergiu.topan Talk 10:39, 2 August 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.97.197.25 (talk)


 * I also added a regional newspaper as a source and completly deleted the ref directing to the FAPTE(the organiser) webpage. sergiu.topan Talk 11:08, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 16:29, 5 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete - Not now, if the article and its thereafter becomes notable, recreation is possible, but right now it is not worthy it. Eduemoni</b><sup style='color:green'>↑talk↓ </b> 16:38, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Do Not Delete - There are other Romanian festival listed with fewer references and lower notability and yet are not proposed for deletion. The topic will become more notable, the article will expand and therefore I see no reason for its deletion. Furthermore I've added regional news coverage since international is nonexistent. And please keep in mind it's the largest Jazz festival in Romania. This should give it enough notability.sergiu.topan Talk 21:39, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Let's not go around making unsubstantiated claims. A source from just last month indicates that Romania's largest jazz festival is the Gărâna Jazz Festival, which has the additional attribute of being in its 17th edition, as opposed to the Cluj-Napoca event, which is just getting started. - Biruitorul Talk 19:27, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
 * You seem terribly keen on seeing this article deleted. I don't want to be unprofessional but I am starting to doubt your interests and your impartiality. Why didn't you propose Gărâna's page for deletion since the page has less references than Jazz in the Park's. And as you said, Romanian press is of little impartiality so the article that you cited falls under the same category. The same Romanian press (maybe not the same online newspaper) said Jazz in the Park had 20.000 spectators as opposed to Gărâna's 10.000. sergiu.topan Talk 23:48, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment Worth noting both WP:GOODFAITH and WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. AllyD (talk) 06:06, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
 * * Note: Wikipedia:WikiProject Jazz notified. AllyD (talk) 06:01, 6 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete Looking for sources, Cluj-Napoca seems to be getting some decent jazz events in recent years at Casa Tiff, but I am not finding wide notice for this festival. That may come in future years, but as things stand it is WP:TOOSOON to demonstrate achieved notability for the event through strong 3rd party sources. AllyD (talk) 06:12, 6 August 2013 (UTC) I suggest adding a brief referenced paragraph on the 2013 event into Cluj-Napoca (so to that extent I am perhaps suggesting a merge). AllyD (talk) 06:15, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I am sorry for the last comment, in which I accused Biruitorul of impartiality. I let my emotions get the best of me. I have nothing to add to the article and now all I can do is wait for the decision. If there is someone with further suggestions I am open to discussing them. sergiu.topan Talk 10:24, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep or move to Incubator. This looks like more of a problem with the citations than the underlying topic. Pro TV source has been added and foreign language sources can be tough. This article does need some TLC though and it would be helpful if some more experienced editors assisted a new editor. RevelationDirect (talk) 02:55, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
 * There's nothing particularly "tough" here. The only vaguely credible sources are this, this and this. The first two are local as well as blog-like. As for the last: well, not everything published on the ProTV site confers notability, I hope! It's telling that nothing featured in the main national newspapers (Adevărul, Evenimentul Zilei, Gândul, etc.). At best, being very generous, what we have is the "burst or spike of news reports" described at WP:PERSISTENCE. - Biruitorul Talk 14:07, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.