Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jeżew PGR


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was a redirect/delete combination‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. Delete some, redirect others per this comment and sub thread. I will delete the relevant ones. I'm leaving the redirects for editorial handling as it isn't clear whether all targets exist. (I may need more coffee) Star   Mississippi  14:04, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Jeżew PGR

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Mass created article by Kotbot, a bot operated by retired user Kotniski.

Also nominated:



"PGR" stands for Państwowe Gospodarstwo Rolne, or "State Agricultural Farm". Every one of these was therefore a farm, not a village/settlement per se. In every instance but one these are a simple duplicate of the article related to the village they were in.

The exception is Potworów PGR (literally "Monsters PGR"). There is nothing at the location in this article but a wide expanse of forest - though of course Google Maps loyally shows Potworów PGR as a location in the forest, as a result likely of scraping data from Wikipedia. I suspect this may be a hoax, though there is no PL Wiki article that might shed more light on this.

With the exception of those sites for which a pro forma translation into another language is displayed, all of these articles are cited very generally to the TERYT database, though it is not clear how that supports these locations.

Even if these could be found on the TERYT database, the appropriate notability standard for a state farm is WP:NORG, which these manifestly fail.

In every case the original Polish article that Kotbot procedurally-generated these articles out of has already been deleted or redirected. It is not clear why EN Wikipedia should continue to host them.

Fails WP:V, WP:N, WP:NGEO. WP:CORP. FOARP (talk) 19:09, 15 October 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 10:03, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography and Poland. FOARP (talk) 19:09, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment FOARP, you might have listed these additional articles in your deletion nomination but none of them are appropriately tagged. I haven't checked to see if they were actually all created by a bot but if there is a human editor involved, they should receive a notification. Right now, this discussion only concerns Jeżew PGR. Liz Read! Talk! 07:03, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads-up Liz, yes, I had forgotten to tag the other articles - tags added now. I can confirm that these were all created by Kotbot, a bot that was deactivated more than ten years ago (but still has an active bot-approval according to their page? Yeah, that should probably be removed just for security's sake if it really is still active), operated by Kotniski, an editor who quit in 2012. FOARP (talk) 07:12, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Great, looks like everything is up to code now. Liz Read! Talk! 06:14, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment (support some, object to others). Object to deletion of the ones that have separate articles on pl wiki and claims of presence in TERYT, those need stand-alone discussion. That means pl:Klejwy (Klejwy), pl:Ołownik (osada), pl:Cieleśnica-Pałac (that one seems clearly notable, setting aside the PGR association that is not even mentioned on pl wiki, mini-WP:TROUT here, FOARP, seems deserved - that's what happens when you start doing mass noms (trash, trash, trash, error, go back...). pl:Holeszów (osada) is the last one I object to (it has an unreferneced small history section on pl wiki). For others, I am fine with deletion.
 * Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 09:22, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi @Piotrus - we already have articles on Klejwy, Ołownik, Cieleśnica, and Holeszów.
 * If there is any information that needs keeping, it can be merged to them. However, I do not see any sourcing either here or on PL Wiki that actually supports anything to add to these articles. TERYT possibly has listings for osada that are part of these villages, but there is nothing to indicate that these are the same as the state farms that used to operate within the same villages - if there is a need for an article, it won't be under these titles or contain any of the same information. The same is true of the palace. FOARP (talk) 12:52, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I'd be ok with redirecting  those articles there, as I concur there is no stand-alone notability that is currently obvious, and also the PGR in the names is not always official, per TERYT. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 02:33, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm also OK with redirection in those cases as an ATD. For Cieleśnica Palace I agree that an EN Wiki article is warranted - I'll see if I can do one in coming days based on this and this. Reading the history, I'm not sure the PGR was at the palace - communist-origin sources talk about the palace being converted into a "place for architects and cultural workers", and later the Palace became owned by the PGR and used as a club of some sort, though who knows what the truth actually was. FOARP (talk) 07:37, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗  plicit  12:28, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
 * - just a ping to say that Cieleśnica Palace is now an article. BTW - looking at the area of the palace you see the kind of harm these inaccurate articles cause on widely-used websites like Google Maps which scrape data from Wikipedia - the ENTIRE area, including ALL of the street-names, are labelled "Cieleśnica PGR", a name that properly belongs to absolutely nothing in that area since the state farm there shut down decades ago. You can simply look at the road-signs leading in to the area and the address of the local museum to see that the locals simply refer to this as "Cieleśnica" and probably wonder why they have this weird name on Google Maps and elsewhere. Indeed, Wikipedia may have essentially wished a place into existence since inevitably the locals will use addresses that can be easily found by delivery drivers/taxis etc. on Google maps. FOARP (talk) 07:46, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @FOARP I wonder where does the Google Map PGR error originates, since wikidata entry I link below has the English name (and Polish) correctly at Cieleśnica-Pałac, not some PGR. Minor note on errors: that I fixed the interwiki (or to be clear, deleted the connection). Cieleśnica Palace which you created is notable, but it is not the same as the village pl:Cieleśnica-Pałac which has no en wiki article right now (pl wiki does not have a separate article about the palace yet). Note that I've restored the pl wiki link at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3270790). Cieleśnica PGR should be moved to Cieleśnica-Pałac, assuming this is the village (or deleted if the PGR entity is some TERYT error). Pinging Polish experts: @Stok, @Malarz pl, @Aotearoa so that we can figure if that PGR article needs to be renamed (if it is about the Polish village) or deleted (if it is about a non-notable PGR)? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 08:05, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * - To make things easy for the closer, unless anyone else comments here, would it be fair to summarize where we've gotten to here as:
 * Delete - Jeżew PGR, Zalesie PGR, Jawory PGR, Potworów PGR, Ostrowy PGR, Torzeniec PGR
 * Redirect to respective village - Klejwy PGR, Ołownik PGR, and Holeszów PGR.
 * Waiting for Stok - Cieleśnica PGR.
 * Is that a fair summary? FOARP (talk) 20:48, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
 * More or less. Since nobody I pinged from pl wiki seems to have time or will to comment, I'll ping few more folks in case anyone cares to offer a useful comment here. @Mathieu Mars @Azemiennow @XaVi PROpolak Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 01:31, 5 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete: Zalesie PGR, Jawory PGR, Potworów PGR, Ostrowy PGR, Torzeniec PGR
 * Redirect: Klejwy PGR, Ołownik PGR, and Holeszów PGR
 * per FOARP. Many thanks to FOARP and Piotrus for their work on this. As for Cieleśnica PGR - I'll support what you two finally decide.
 * -- A. B. (talk • contribs • global count) 21:46, 4 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Given that the articles in question were created by a bot, it is likely that the non-existent populated places were described due to database inconsistencies. It would be tough to establish otherwise as Kotinski has already quit. However, let's leave the ones that are present in pl.wiki and can be verified in TERYT. May redirects be created if you prefer so, I am not gonna insist. Mathieu Mars (talk) 22:09, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * @Mathieu Mars - Thanks for responding. Just to be clear on this, none of these are present in PL Wiki as articles - they've all been deleted or redirected there. FOARP (talk) 10:23, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I meant: if for any of them the redirect exists in pl.wiki, we should exclude such an article from deletion by leaving it or turning into redirect. Should've been more precise. Mathieu Mars (talk) 20:08, 6 November 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.