Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jennifer Pan


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. The event is notable but probably not the person, but as no consensus has formed around an alternative title I will leave that open to further discussion. King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  &spades; 07:43, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Jennifer Pan

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Delete: non-notable. Not every criminal case is notable. Quis separabit? 14:50, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * But not every criminal case results in a book by a major publisher (Dundurn Press), and there does seem to be substantial, even international , coverage. The case would meet WP:GNG, but not as a biography of Jennifer Pan. Therefore, better to rename to Murder of Bich Ha Pan and restructure the content accordingly. Dl2000 (talk) 03:51, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 07:28, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 00:31, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 01:14, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 01:14, 5 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete - Jennifer Pan is not independently notable, but I can see an article on the Murder of Bieh Ha Pan. That article would need to be written differently than a bio of Jennifer though, so my vote is still a "delete" for this article, though with no prejudice about the creation of a new "murder of..." article. Fyddlestix (talk) 17:08, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Article has been completely rewritten, expanded, sources, contectualizes - with sole exceptio of lede & infobox, satisfying this demand.E.M.Gregory (talk) 20:58, 11 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep and consider Rename. Article is so badly written that an editor unfamiliar with this murder would assume that it was a family tragedy  when In fact, this was anything but a "routine" murder due to the way it was treated by the press and by the East Asian immigrant community, see for example: Tragedy of ‘golden’ daughter’s fall resonates with Asian immigrant children, in the Washington Post.E.M.Gregory (talk) 13:14, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Note that it is far more efficient to keep the article and rename it, than to delete the sources and hope that someone starts all over again.E.M.Gregory (talk) 13:14, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Note that a Canadian journalist is out with a "true crime" book on this murder; a thing publishers and journalists do only when a crime is pre-sold. i.e. notable.E.M.Gregory (talk) 14:46, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
 * WP:HEYMANN I expanded article form stub to give some idea of the scope and impact of this murder. However, I did nothing to the lede or the infobox, pending outcome of this discussion.  Article needs a new title, and a lede revised according to the new title.  Note that the case became notorious because of the idea that culturally-specific Chinese  Tiger parenting and the pressure on children of Chinese immigrants to be perfect backfired here into a tragic murder.  Naming it after the book won't work, reason is: there is a book, but it got panned.  Also, an article by a journalist who was a high school classmate of the "golden daughter" is said to have launched the incident into notoriety, so it's hardly fair to name the article after a book written by a different journalist.  That article was written almost 5 years after the murder occurred, until then this murder relatively routine regional press attention. Frankly, I don't know what to call it.  I can't find any sources calling it Murder of Bieh Ha Pan, PRESS ATTENTION is focused almost entirely on the daughter, the family relationship and "tiger parenting."E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:25, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep and rename to focus on the crime/trial, which is the true thing that's notable here. Patar knight - chat/contributions 23:52, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Good point, something like Trial of Jennifer Pan or Jennifer Pan Murder Case might work. Although it is the mother who was killed, the sources focus on Jennifer and her remarkable trajectory of fabulism, and on her relationship with her father, the "tiger Dad".  E.M.Gregory (talk) 22:39, 10 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep and agree with recommendations to rename the article and format the article to fit the crime itself. This topic has significant media attention from established, reputable secondary sources like CBC, Toronto Life, etc that warrants sufficient notability for WP:GNG. Cyali (talk) 21:27, 10 January 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.