Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jeremy Lee (singer)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. This debate is different to many others - it comes down to an analysis of the quality of the sources through the matrix provided by GNG, rather than the quantity. Ultimately, there is a clear division in how these sources are viewed; this may or may not be further muddied due to them being non-English sources.

Consensus may be able to be established on this topic, however in 14 days at this AfD it hasn't been yet. I considered a second relist, but I'm not sure a consensus either way would form by continuing this specific discussion.

Therefore, I am specifically noting that this article can be renominated immediately to reconsider the quality of the sources provided by Cunard, if any editor wishes to do so. If this happens, I would recommend that this AfD be advertised, using a neutral notice, at places where editors who are experts in source analysis would be encouraged to come here and take part - thinking Reliable sources/Noticeboard, and maybe any relevant Wikiprojects for assistance with any language barriers. Daniel (talk) 22:51, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

Jeremy Lee (singer)

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Fails WP:SIGCOV. There is coverage but lots of PR from social media.  scope_creep Talk  21:52, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 22:30, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 22:30, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Hong Kong-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 22:30, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.  From Google Translate: "1. Jeremy originally aspired to become a singer when he was 6 years old. He was selected as a "Singing Star" in elementary school. He sang in the class and began to participate in some singing competitions in middle school. (TV screenshot) 2. Jeremy has signed up for programs such as "Happy Boys" and "New Chinese Singing Voice", and participated in the selection of trainees by Korean entertainment companies, but was eliminated many times in the audition stage."  From Google Translate: "Jeremy's lack of self-confidence in the past may be related to his life experience. His parents divorced at the age of 6, so he lived with his mother-in-law and played with one person for a long time as a child, which made Jeremy an introverted, independent and reticent personality. And he loves acting, he set his goal of becoming a singer when he was 6 years old, and set a 25-year-old deadline. When participating in "Stars Made by the People", Jeremy was often accused of having no personal characteristics and "Korean taste strong". He once screamed in front of the camera: [quote]"  From Google Translate: "Jeremy has always been not the most prominent one in MIRROR. He was described as an invisible man in the competition during the “Stars for All” competition in 18 years. ... After becoming a member of MIRROR, Jeremy continued to be low-key and talk less, but in fact his plasticity is very high. He has been training his singing and dancing skills, and his dedication is obvious to all. Jeremy's Solo in the concert was eye-catching. Jeremy takes the Korean style route and is good at singing and dancing. 1. Jeremy lived in the Mainland Jeremy lived in Hunan when he was 6 years old. Because his parents were separated, he played for a long time when he was a child."  From Google Translate: "Among the mirrors, Jeremy Li Junjie should be a unique one. His coquettish and charming face is familiar to the audience, but when others think that he has a distinctive style and outstanding style, Jeremy was actually troubled by his lack of personal style. Perplexed. ... Speaking with Jeremy, I felt that he is a humble and introverted person who is accustomed to working silently. From self-doubt to being unique now, what he has to go through is unlimited singing and dancing, acting training, and also dealing with the subject of psychological quality: [quote]"  From Google Translate: "Because Jeremy follows the Korean style in the team, he often dyes his hair in different colors, and his image is very vivid, so he is described by fans as being as colorful as a unicorn, and finally named after unicorn (unicorn). ... The mentor Liu Meijun once praised Jeremy for exuding a trait that others don’t have. He believed that his innate conditions can take the coquettish route. Later, after Liu Meijun’s special encouragement, Jeremy gradually got rid of the Korean style with no personal characteristics and established his own. personal style! ... The manager Hua Jie also mentioned recently that Jeremy is a very distinctive singer, such as the singers of Huang Yaoming or Leslie Cheung in the past."</li> </ol>There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Jeremy Lee to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 00:02, 20 September 2021 (UTC) </li></ul>
 * There is enough biographical coverage of Jeremy Lee in the sources to establish notability and justify a separate article from Mirror (group). Cunard (talk) 00:02, 20 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment Looking at the poor refs in turn that the editor has supplied:
 * Ref 1 states: Jeremy's unassuming and low-profile personality has kept him out of the limelight. However, this does not mean that Jeremy is not good enough. On the contrary, he is a consistent dancer and singer in the group. Now we're counting down 10 things you didn't know about Jeremy, so let's learn more about him!' That is PR.
 * Ref 2 states: Jeremy Lee, who has been recognised as the most gentle member of MIRROR by Joey Leung, has released his single "Dream Words" on his Youtube channel. Jeremy thanked those who helped him in a long post on IG for the release of the song. Jeremy explained the origin of "Dream Words" on IG: "I have a lot of people to thank for 'Dream Words', and first of all, I have to thank Kitten. Thank you for your heart, which has given me more and more confidence in myself, and thank you for your selflessness which has made 'The Lucky Kid' and 'Dream Words' possible. That is PR and isn't in-depth.
 * Ref 3 states MIRROR has reached the end of its six concert series "MIRROR ONE & ALL LIVE 2021", in addition to the popular king Jiang Tao and Ian, other members such as Jeremy (Lee Chun Kit) is also quite worthy of everyone's attention. Recently, Jeremy and Jiang Tao shot a cosmetics commercial together, which attracted the attention of netizens. Jeremy is actually a very introverted person ...... Editor: Oriental Xindi｜Original post: New Monday丨Photos: Jeremy＠IG、ViuTV That is the whole with a series of pictures. Not in-depth and again another block of PR, from the same paper.

The rest of the references are the same. They all PR. Several weeks ago he was unknown, now he is supposed to be notable, due because of PR. They are shallow, mediocre and fails WP:SIGCOV.  scope_creep Talk  07:06, 20 September 2021 (UTC)


 * These articles are not "PR". These articles provide detailed independent reporting and analysis of the subject. The Hong Kong Economic Times article notes from Google Translate, "When participating in "Stars Made by the People", Jeremy was often accused of having no personal characteristics and 'Korean taste strong'." This is unflattering coverage of the subject. Cunard (talk) 07:30, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The articles are very short, often four or five lines, they are not-indepth, with lots of pictures to get audience recognition. They fail WP:BASIC. Several weeks ago he was unknown. Jeremy was often accused, Jeremy's unassuming and low-profile personality, Jeremy has always been not. They are classic PR. Since when is Wikipedia become a listing service for every neerdowell, mediocre subject; turning it into almanac.  He has been selected by committee to become a singer, who otherwise would have been completly unknown. He is so mediocre he a needed a sustained PR campaign to make his recognisable. There is not one reference here that has not been written by an agency.    scope_creep Talk  07:41, 20 September 2021 (UTC)


 * At least I wouldn't think ref 4 as PR. The ref titled "專訪[...]Jeremy李駿傑" means "Interview [...] Jeremy Lee Chun-kit". It should be independent from the individual. Sun8908 &#8239;Talk 07:49, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
 * It is a PR as well. It states on the article. Images courtesy of the Brand. That combined with many links to his social media accounts.    scope_creep Talk  08:03, 20 September 2021 (UTC)


 * The five articles I listed provide 325 words, 926 words, 1,105 words, 1,061 words, and 1,634 words of coverage, respectively. I do not consider "The articles are very short, often four or five lines, they are not-indepth" to be accurate. That some of the articles have numerous photos does not detract from the articles' reliability as they are published by reputable publishers. That the publisher Media Chinese International said the "images in the article are courtesy of the brand" does not make the article PR. The article was written by the zh:明報周刊 magazine's staff writer Nana Wong. Regarding "Several weeks ago he was unknown", this is incorrect since the subject has been part of the band Mirror since 2018 and received coverage in 2020 for his role in a web drama. Regarding "He has been selected by committee to become a singer, who otherwise would have been completly unknown", Notability (music) does not say that a singer who was selected by committee and received significant coverage for his activities years afterwards is not notable. Cunard (talk) 08:12, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The last reference are a blocks of text, 4-5 lines that may consistute 1634 words. This is one: She also said that many fans had asked her why she didn't give Jeremy a chance, and she said, "I don't want to push him, but once I do, I can't give him a chance to lose. I believe that as Jeremy continues to work hard to equip himself, his future development will become stronger and stronger, and I believe that we are all looking forward to Jeremy's new direction. The images have been taken from persons fan club and his social media sites. This is PR.   scope_creep Talk  08:21, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
 * , I'm sorry, but I'm with Scope creep. You've done a lot of good work on a lot of AfDs, but this is different--yes, these are PR pieces, no doubt part of a campaign to plug this song. That's not reliable coverage--it's actually literally coverage, since there is no debt to it whatsoever. "He was accused of having no personality"--but look at him now! False accusations! Here he is! Sorry, no. Drmies (talk) 13:55, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep per Cunard. Passes WP:SIGCOV and criteria 1 of WP:MUSICBIO.4meter4 (talk) 22:16, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwaiiplayer (talk) 12:46, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep, appears to pass WP:GNG. I disagree with the notion that sources are not independent because they use photographs from the subject's social media. This is simply a journalist looking for photographs to add to their article and taking some from the subject's social media. NemesisAT (talk) 21:57, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The enormous load of photos in those flimsy articles are indicative enough--it's not journalism, it's marketing. Drmies (talk) 17:28, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep per Cunard. Someone is trying to judge on Chinese sources even he is not a Chinese. How fanny? Clearly WP:IDONTLIKE. 185.205.142.78 (talk) 11:49, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete. Sorry, Cunard, but those sources don't impress me. This, for instance, is a photo shoot with some nice phrases (and Ming Pao doesn't strike me as a very seriously reliable newspaper). The article from the HKET is a bit better, but it might as well have been written by ViuTV's PR department. And that's the best of them--and for what? A song uploaded to his own YouTube channel? No, this does not establish his notability outside the band. Drmies (talk) 17:28, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I disagree with some of your statements. Ming Pao is considered to be generally reliable on zh.wiki, see zh:WP:RSP. The words on the article are not describing the photos, but how Lee has developed his fan base and his personality. Sun8908 &#8239;Talk 07:30, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
 * That may be so but it's not very relevant here. I didn't say the words described the photos. Drmies (talk) 02:46, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep Definitely meets WP:GNG, thanks to work by Cunard. VocalIndia (talk) 03:44, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
 * You don't appear to done any analysis of any sources.   scope_creep Talk  11:52, 1 October 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.