Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jerome Barber


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result of the debate was no consensus.  howch e  ng   {chat} 17:39, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Jerome Barber
Professor of questionable notabilty. Google pulls 151 unique results, about half that when coupled with his area of expertise, Modern Arnis, a type of martial art. Notabilty claimed as the only accredited teacher of said martial art in North America, which he has been for 18 years. Being the only accredited teacher of a subject for 18 years makes the regional significance questionable, and the position equally so. Delete as is. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 00:47, 20 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the long, reasoned description. Nevertheless, as the developer and prof of the only college level program in this sport, and as a Martial Arts Hall of Famer, I have to vote Keep here. -- JJay 02:05, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: I'm open to adjusting this vote if new info comes to light regarding Barber's notability. It's difficult for me to judge as I am not an Arnis practitioner. -- JJay 10:46, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: Question for nom. It looks like this has been speedied 3 or 4 times, is there any explanation for that? -- JJay 05:31, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, I had speedied the article as A7, NN Bio. After locking the page, the author, Renegade68, asked me to reconsider, and wrote a version that stressed notability.  Page recreated, and AfD'd.  --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 10:17, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks. It's good to know that for the discussion at hand. I'm glad we are encouraging new users in their efforts by teaching them about csd and vfd. -- JJay 10:43, 20 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Ditto. I dont know if google hits should be a standard of importance here, but thats a decision beyond my control. The fact that Professor Presas started his art by having it taught in the Filipino School system made Dr. Barbers college program of special importance to him. I have head rumor that he used to mention that his art was taught at an American college with pride. That and the fact that he is well known amongst all the major players and set up and ran the Symposium (which was big news in the MA circles even with the controversy) earns him a place IMO. KEEP -- Renegade68 21:49, 20 December 2005 (UTC) This is the article's author.


 * Other instructors in the same art were influenced or aided by Dr. Barber over the years (for example, Dr Barber coordinated, ran, and acquired funding for camps with Professor Remy Presas in the 1980's and 1990's which were attended by currently in vogue instructors such as Tim Hartman). Professor Remy Presas (inventor of the art in question) considered him a notable if not exceptional student before his death. In terms of the history of Modern Arnis in the United States over the past 20 years he has been a significant instructor of the art and the entry should remain as is.TriVR 04:11, 20 December 2005 (UTC) User's only contribution


 * Dr. Barber's "for credit" Modern Arnis program is the only one of it's kind in the USA and was approved in writing by the late Grandmaster Remy Presas (founder of the system). I have personally witnessed the approval documents to this effect. In addition Dr. Barber was inducted into the World Martial Arts Hall Of Fame in the second year of it's existence, becoming one of the first six Modern Arnis practitioners to receive such an honor! He is also held in high regard by other members of the Modern Arnis/Martial Arts community being a techincal advisor for the International Modern Arnis Federation of the Philippines (USA) and the World Martial Arts Society (a testament to his notability). I vote to keep this entry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Omastad (talk • contribs) 06:32, 20 December 2005 (UTC) User's only contribution


 * Modern Arnis is a small fish in the larger martialarts pool. It doesn't have the name recognitiojn of karate, kung fu or ninjutsu, so it doesn't surprise me that Dr. Barbers program is the only one in the US. I'm unaware of any martial arts programs taught for credit in US collages, so having an accredited program does strike me as notable. Modern Arnis is taught in the Phillipines schools though, and at least 1 other practitioner, Lisa McManas (with IMAF under Jeff Delany) also teaches a program in a collage, though I am not certain of the specifics there. Keep --Bob Hubbard 15:01, 20 December 2005 (UTC) User has been registered less than one week; seventh distinct edit


 * This afd nomination was orphaned. Listing now. &mdash;Crypticbot (operator) 15:28, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * D'oh. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 08:28, 21 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Dr. B's program brings Modern Arnis to people that might otherwise not step into a martial arts school because of cost, self esteem, or other issues. As a college course and a self defense club that is accessible to non students through the adult education program, Jerome has made Modern Arnis available to those that really need it instead of just those that can afford it.  Since enrollment is generally between 12-25 students per semester.  Factor the number of semesters that the program has been running (at two campuses for a number of those years) not to mention the number of Modern Arnis Seminars as well as for other arts he has hosted over the years, Dr. B has been very influencial IMO — Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.169.28.179 (talk • contribs)  User's only contribution


 * Delete Doesn't appear particularly notable to me.Gateman1997 18:47, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge into Modern Arnis. Flyboy Will 21:38, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Good Christ, this was a mess. First we get rampant sock-puppeteering, then the explosion of some acedemic and personal debate between Barber and someone named Jeff (JJL, not me). I have moved this to Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_deletion/Jerome_Barber. I am also pre-emptively relisting the nomination to gather legit debate on the article's veracity. To the closing admin (I can't close this myself because I nominated it) still take into account the previous votes, but keep in mind the meat- and sock-puppetry. To new Wikipedians, please keep in mind that AfD guidlines state that "Your opinion will be given the most weight if you are logged in with an account that already existed when the nomination was made." Discussions of the article's content should be made on the article's talk page and longer discussions of the article's veracity on the AfDs subpage. Personal issues between editors don't belong anywhere on the Project, so drop it. Let's try this again. 'RELISTING. VOTE BELOW.' --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 04:25, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Non-notable.Obina 11:32, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep verifiable. -- Astrokey44 |talk 22:43, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: Verifiability is just one of the requirements for a Wikipedia article. WP:BIO sets down the standards which biographical articles are required to attain. Stifle 13:29, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Non-notable.Doxn4cer User's third contribution -- JJay 13:03, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Verifiable but not notable, failing WP:BIO by a short margin. Stifle 13:29, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Keep. There isn't any other person who has my credential in terms of approval in writin from the later founder and system GM Remy A. Presas, for a college credit course in Modern Arnis within the USA. His approval was given in 1989 and the program has been running continuously from 1987 through the Fall Semerster at Erie Community College in Orchard Park, NY. I have noticed that the most recent votes for deletion have been given sans any supporting reasons. Admitting that I am somewhat biased on the matter, I none the less have put my martial resume up for review and camparision to anyone who is willing to do the same. My position in terms of creating and teaching a college based, credit bearing courses in Modern Arnis, is singularly unique in the art, within the USA. My tie-in to the IMAFP as an Advisor is indicative of my continued interest in positively promoting the art.

Jerome Barber


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.