Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jilin People's Stadium


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. ✗ plicit  00:49, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Jilin People's Stadium

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Per User:Respublik, this looks like a hoax. No reliable source can be found anywhere to support this stadium's existence. Zanahary (talk) 00:13, 1 March 2024 (UTC) Keep after I rewrote the article. I added these sources to the article:    I did not add this source as it is a self-published source. But this source indicates there is even more coverage in historical chinese newspapers and magazines. From Google Translate: "'Jilin City Sports Chronicle' records: Beishan Stadium was first built in 1949. At that time, 'the Jilin Municipal People's Government mobilized cadres and the masses across the city to work voluntarily and built a sports ground on the basis of a mud pond on the periphery of Beishan Park.' After the stadium was completed, a podium and a lounge were built on the east side, and stone terraces were added on the north and south sides of the stadium. This standard stadium with a 400-meter track was originally named Jilin People's Stadium. Later, because it was located at the foot of Beishan, it was named Jilin Beishan Stadium. 'On October 2, 1949, a city-wide mass meeting was held at Beishan Stadium to celebrate the founding of the People's Republic of China' ('Jilin City History and Major Events'). ... When looking back at history, there are some disturbing descriptions in local historical materials about Beishan Stadium, which carries the common memory of many Jilin citizens. Historical materials including 'Jilin City Sports Chronicle' and 'Jilin City Architecture Chronicle' clearly record that Beishan Stadium was built in 1949. However, the 1948 entry in 'Jilin City History and Major Events' records: 'On November 4, 1948, a mass meeting to celebrate the liberation of Northeast China was held at today's Beishan Stadium.' This record seems to imply that before the Beishan Stadium was built in 1949, this area was not all muddy ponds, but there was an open and flat field." There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Jilin Beishan Stadium ; formerly known as Jilin People's Stadium ), to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 13:15, 3 March 2024 (UTC) 
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sports and China. Zanahary (talk) 00:13, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions.  WC  Quidditch   ☎   ✎  00:21, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete: Can't find anything, not on Chinese Wikipedia either. <span style="color: rgb(237, 50, 45);">StreetcarEnjoyer <span style="color: rgb(237, 50, 45);">(talk)  02:08, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Note that this article has existed for over 18 years Zanahary (talk) 02:10, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete: I also couldn't find any sources. Before we declare a hoax, I think the race is on to find somewhere that there was some establishment, whose name could reasonably be interpreted as Jilin People's Stadium, that existed in 2006! On that question, I have four curiosities to point out:
 * 1) The place marked as Jilin People's Stadium in Baicheng on Google Maps doesn't inspire much confidence: the Chinese label is simply "People's Stadium".
 * , the editor who created this article, is still active and seems in good standing. While over 100 of the 10,700(!) articles they have created over their long service in Wikipedia have been deleted, including on similar sports venues which were left unreferenced for a long while, a quick sample suggests that when these articles were brought to AfD, sources demonstrating their existence were usually recovered. And browsing that list, it seems like back in '06, the editor created many articles for planned sports infrastructure projects that never materialised, or for stadiums that subsequently adopted different names or English-language translations. Either could explain our difficulty.
 * 1) The stadium lost half its seating capacity in an unexplained edit on 13 July 2014 by, an editor blocked two years later for copyright violations. If they were a good-faith editor, this might be some hope that the stadium had some notability ten years ago.
 * 2) The only results that really return for me relate to Yanji People's Stadium, demolished in 2013. Coupled with the survey of other deleted articles, is it possible that, around 2006, there was some discussion that its replacement (if by then it had been considered) be named after the province, not the city?  Then again, who created the article Yanji People's Stadium, but our very own ? IgnatiusofLondon (talk) 02:58, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * The talk page has this source for a stadium that never operated before being demolished and made a public square. Zanahary (talk) 03:01, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Oooh, interesting! It might be translation issues (I can neither speak nor read Chinese!), but what I'm seeing is that the stadium in that article did exist between 1949 and sometime after the 1980s; it was originally named Jilin People's Stadium, but later named Jilin Beishan Stadium. This (probably non-WP:RS) childhood memory account attests to the same thing. It doesn't seem like either the English-language or Chinese-language Wikipedia carries an article on that stadium in either name, however, and it still doesn't explain where 25,000 or 50,000 came from. I can't see anything resembling a 25,000-seater stadium near where that stadium once was. IgnatiusofLondon (talk) 03:18, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Very interesting! Zanahary (talk) 04:43, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * The description and map in the 163.com and toutiao.com articles seem to be more or less consistent with satellite imagery over the area (43°50'23.32"N, 126°31'51.92"E) in 2005 and 2007 (see Google Earth). By 2010 the sat imagery shows the park pictured in the toutiao.com article. Sean.hoyland (talk) 09:02, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, I see! So perhaps this was the stadium intended in 2006 after all.
 * It seems like an interested editor (with far more competence in Chinese-language sources than me!) could possibly find enough sources to write Jilin Beishan Stadium, to which the article could redirect, but functionally, I think there is nothing from the page history worth preserving to avoid deletion for now. IgnatiusofLondon (talk) 15:57, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete. The only mentions of this supposed stadium I can find are this article, a Reddit post about this article, and auto-generated YouTube videos. Keep now that notability has been demonstrated. Cortador (talk) 13:38, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete – Per all above. No WP:V. Svartner (talk) 14:23, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 15:43, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. GiantSnowman 15:46, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
 * , I found sources and rewrote the article. Cunard (talk) 13:15, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep following article expansion/improvement sources which show notability. GiantSnowman 17:53, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi @Cunard: Per above discussion, it seems that the stadium was demolished sometimes after the 1980s. Is this consistent with what you found in the sources? If so, we can revise the article with the toutiao.com source to clarify that the stadium no longer exists. IgnatiusofLondon (talk) 14:38, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, I just realised that's the source you've discounted! Reminder not to reply so rashly when on trains... IgnatiusofLondon (talk) 18:11, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * The Toutiao source says from Google Translate: "However, before it had been prosperous for too long, Beishan Stadium encountered a development dilemma. Although there were some expansions of varying sizes in the 1980s, due to the city government's decision to build the Zhihemen Overpass and widen the road, the east side of the Beishan Stadium was occupied, and many important facilities, including the rostrum, were demolished. The stadium then lay abandoned for many years. After the Zhihemen Overpass was built, the Beishan Stadium was simply leveled, and the city's amateur sports school managed to maintain training..." This is about the same Jilin Beishan Stadium. I did a Google Books search for reliable sources about the demolition but couldn't find any. Sources about the demolition are likely offline sources. Cunard (talk) 06:35, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Cunard, you’re amazing! Zanahary (talk) 19:32, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the kind words, Zanahary, IgnatiusofLondon, and Spiderone! Cunard (talk) 06:35, 4 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Keep consistent with previous comment that one of the most source-finding competent editors has now created a viable article ( to the rescue again!), conditional on a page move to Jilin Beishan Stadium and a check of "What links here" to remove any links to the 25,000 seater extant stadium suggested in the original revision. IgnatiusofLondon (talk) 14:15, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep and move to Jilin Beishan Stadium per excellent work from Cunard again on a Chinese subject Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 22:15, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep Nice reworking of the article. Anwegmann (talk) 20:06, 7 March 2024 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.