Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jill Taylor (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no conensus to delete these articles. Skomorokh, barbarian  11:10, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Jill Taylor
AfDs for this article: 
 * – (View AfD) (View log)

None of these is a notable character. No sources whatsoever, no out of universe notability for any of them, not even TRYING to assert notability. If deleted, move Jill Taylor (disambiguation) accordingly. Last AFD was redirected due to the nominator's WP:JNN argument; problems of sourcing, etc. haven't even come close to being fixed because there are none, and someone has issue with redirect it seems. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Many otters • One bat • One hammer) 20:55, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. No reliable sources, and most of this article is simply original research in the nature of personal observation of the tropes of a television programme.  There is no real notability here, AFAIK, and none is asserted.  I think this topic would be amply covered by a mention in the article about the series itself or perhaps one that covered the protagonist, and I'm sure there's already enough present to make a merge a useless exercise. Accounting4Taste: talk 21:07, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Procedural close and do the merge. They were never done since the last AfD (under a different character's name) which resulted in a merge.  Them  From  Space  23:34, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * What's there to merge? The list already contains sufficient info, and to close seems like process for the sake of process. Either way, Jill Taylor would need to be deleted so Jill Taylor (disambiguation) can be moved. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Many otters • One bat • One hammer) 23:43, 23 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep- Bah. This is one of those "before the internet so no reliable sources are going to be online" cases. Which was pointed out in the last afd. Deleting this solves nothing, since a major character from a long running tv show is generally going to be encyclopedic, but finding ANYTHING online is, at best, problematic. And since the nom has made it clear he dislikes just notable as a reason, I'll cite ignore all rules and wikipedia has no deadline as my reasons. This is certainly a situation where strict adherence to the rules does more harm than good. Barring a keep, I'd concede to a redirect/merge to an appropriate list of characters. Umbralcorax (talk) 01:14, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * So you'll let this rot for another ten years because nobody can be arsed to find any sources, just like everything else? Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Many otters • One bat • One hammer) 13:12, 24 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep Tim and Jill, delete or redirect Randy - coverage of Tim and Jill in reliable sources, including substantive analysis in several books of their relationship in the context of feminism and family dynamics. The same can't be said for Randy. Jill's article should be moved to Jill Taylor (character) to make way for the dab page. Otto4711 (talk) 22:37, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep Jill Taylor and Tim Taylor (character), main characters in one of the most popular American TV series of the 1990s. As Otto4711 points out, there is in-depth analysis of these characters in third-party sources. Examples include Hanke R (1998). "The “mock-macho” situation comedy: Hegemonic masculinity and its reiteration", Western Journal of Communication 62 (1): 74–93; as well as Craig S (1996). "More (male) power: Humor & gender in Home Improvement", The Mid-Atlantic Almanack (5): 61–84. There's also Lynn Spangler's 2003 book Television women from Lucy to Friends: fifty years of sitcoms and feminism‎ page 198. I also found several newspaper articles that list Jill Taylor as one of the "most memorable sitcom moms" (or variations on that phrasing). Paul Erik  (talk) (contribs) 02:53, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * So ADD THEM  .  Don't let this unsourced piece of crap rot any longer. I already tried and failed to find anything of note. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Many otters • One bat • One hammer) 16:18, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * May I compliment you on your use of wiki markup. I've done some of the work adding sources; anyone else is welcome to add some more from the Lynn Spangler book I noted above.  Paul Erik  (talk) (contribs) 02:33, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep: One of a limited group of notable TV character-moms.--Milowent (talk) 04:11, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. Non-notable. The newly added sources do not focus on the character herself (passing mention while discussing tv or the show in general), so they are not sufficient to establish notability. Doctorfluffy (robe and wizard hat) 19:34, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * There are pages and pages that discuss the Tim and Jill Taylor characters, in particular in the Spangler book and the Hanke academic article; while the Craig article goes into detail about the conflict between Tim and Jill—not "passing mention" by any stretch of the imagination. Paul Erik  (talk) (contribs) 01:56, 30 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep per erik's and Otto's sources.    DGG ( talk ) 00:01, 30 September 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.