Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jimmy Clausen (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. WP:SNOW  MBisanz  talk 03:42, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Jimmy Clausen
AfDs for this article: 
 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Wikipedia has come to an understanding of what constitute notable athletes. These guidelines have been discussed and debated extensively and used repeatedly as the foundation for AFD discussions conerning non-notable athletes. Per WP:ATHLETE athletes generally have to fit one of the following two categories to warrant their own article:
 * People who have competed at the fully professional level of a sport, or a competition of equivalent standing in a non-league sport such as swimming, golf or tennis.[9]
 * People who have competed at the highest amateur level of a sport, usually considered to mean the Olympic Games or World Championships.

This means that eventhough an athlete may receive coverage in their local paper or play at a collegiate level, where they receive coverage for their involvement in a team, they are generally not notable until they play at the highest level. There are several HS and College players who have existing articles.

This is a non-notable college football player who hasn't done anything. He is no more notable than your local newsreporter or councilwoman. Just because there are some articles, doesn't make the player notable.

Jimmy Clausen is arguably the more notable of the people I've nominated due to his arrest. It should also be noted that his first AFD resulted in a delete.--- Balloonman  PoppaBalloon 07:01, 14 December 2008 (UTC) As there appears to be a debate at wp:athlete, I notified them of this ongoing afd
 * Delete. Per nom. Arrest doesnt make him notable. Kittybrewster  &#9742;  09:00, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. Just like Terrrelle Pryor. Clausen is Notre Dame's starting quarterback. Does he have to win a freaking Heisman to be considered "notable", or what? ––bender235 (talk) 10:56, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Strong keep - Previous consensus has indicated that playing D1 sports qualifies per WP:ATHLETE. This means that any D1 FBS football player is presumed notable.  Clausen is more notable than 95% of them.  Being the starting QB for a school like Notre Dame easily qualifies one to be notable. Oren0 (talk) 11:10, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. (Balloonman has nominated several college football players for deletion with the same rationale, so I will post my same rationale to all of his AfDs.) WP:ATHLETE is considered to be an additional criterion to notability, as indicated here: (Should a person fail to meet these additional criteria, they may still be notable under Wikipedia:Notability.) Whether this player may or may not meet WP:ATHLETE should not be the question. The basic criteria, as outlined by WP:BIO, is that these players must be the subject of published[3] secondary source material which is reliable, intellectually independent,[4] and independent of the subject.[5]. It also says that if the depth of the coverage is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be needed to prove notability. Take a look at the sources referenced by the article - do they not meet these requirements? I think they do. BlueAg09 (Talk) 11:26, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep Sources check out, passes WP:N §hep   •   ¡Talk to me!  11:51, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep WP:ATHLETE is an exception to general WP:N requirements, not a replacement of them. There may well be professional athletes that would not meet general notability requirements, see Keith Cash and Kerry Cash but they get in despite no references or reliable sources other than them having played in the NFL.  Conversely, there are athletes who do not meet WP:ATHLETE but do get in under general notability standards.  See Brian Orakpo and Colt McCoy as examples of athletes who have not played at the professional level but have garnered enough notability at the college level to be included.-- 2008 Olym pian chit chat 12:19, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Strong keep - Nominator's own use of the condition "generally" reveals that the 2 conditions presented aren't the only factors to consider. Division 1 starter for team with national coverage; ranked #1 high school player by various national media; obvious notability. -- Zim Zala Bim talk  16:12, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Speedy keep Is this serious? Let's get real. Tool2Die4 (talk) 16:31, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep -- Why are we even legitimizing this ridiculous argument?  Balloonman  is promoting a deliberately absurd interpretation of the WP:ATHLETE standard in order to make what amounts to a political statement.  If this behavior has no consequence, then 95% of the articles on Wikipedia could be flagged for deletion by a similarly impertinent user with an axe to grind. Trowbridge (talk) 16:35, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep - Passes WP:N, which is merely supplimented by WP:ATHLETE. &mdash; neuro(talk) 20:25, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 00:05, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Strong keep - The question here is whether college football players are notable athletes (which is ridiculous to even be arguing over, why is Reggie Bush a celeb right now? Not because of what he's done in the NFL)? Since the answer is yes, then any nominations to delete college football players should be denied, because there is no question there are notable.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.241.151.68 (talk) 06:52, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep WP:N trumps WP:ATHLETE, and Jimmy boy passes it. This wave of controversial (and WRONG) AFDs from the nom are bordering on disruptive. I now have very serious doubts that the nom can close any AFD in a competent matter anymore. SashaNein (talk) 19:18, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep - Passes general notability guideline easily.  Giants2008  ( 17-14 ) 23:02, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep Per WP:ATHLETE.--  Iamawesome  800  23:55, 15 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.