Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jinn in popular culture


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. -- Cirt (talk) 08:16, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Jinn in popular culture

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Trivial listcruft at best. If any entries are notable, they belong in the main article. Branched out articles like this are simply dumping grounds that get out of hand. RobJ1981 (talk) 05:50, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete or Merge as a content fork. The Genie article without it is only 1500 words long. Abductive  (reasoning) 09:10, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep and improve or delete, but don't merge. The main article "jinn" really does not need a trivia magnet either, slimmed down or not. Representations of jinn / genies in popular culture belong to cultural phenomena which are sufficiently distinct from the actual Islamic concept to deserve a separate article. Cavila (talk) 09:19, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The "main article" jinn is a disambig page. This argument to remove "trivia" is diametrically opposed to the WP:Content forking guideline. And the distinction of mythical jinn from fictional genies argues for separate articles for them, not for a "...in popular culture" article for either. Abductive  (reasoning) 10:04, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, "genie" really ought to be at "jinn", which is the term most often used by reliable sources on the subject (as far as I'm aware anyway), but that's another matter. Could you explain why you'd prefer to make a typological distinction between mythical and fictional as the basis for separate articles? I don't really see that working here. My point is that the genie in "modern non-Islamic popular culture" is a vast subject of its own, informed by the jinn of Islamic culture only to a certain extent. To have a separate article for that sort of thing is not content forking. Cavila (talk) 11:09, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that a study of usage will show that fictional genies are conceptually very different from the mythical jinn. Genies are a Western construct, Jinn are Arabic. This may be of interest. Abductive  (reasoning) 16:36, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * 'Western genies' tend to be fictional, true that, but an Arab writer, who may well believe in the existence of jinn, is - at least theoretically - able to present a non-mythical jinn in a work of fiction - that's why I'd prefer a distinction between Islamic and non-Islamic culture. But anyway, most if not all of the trivia cited in "popular culture" happen to belong to the latter category, which is why I don't think they merit a section in our start-class article on the jinn in Islamic cultures (founder under "genie", alas). Of course, there's more to modern non-Islamic genies than just popular culture (I wouldn't lump all forms of literature into that category, for instance). I'm certainly not arguing with that. Cavila (talk) 20:09, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Right, so there should be an article on Jinn and an article on Genies, and the pop culture stuff will fit nicely into the Genie article (which is very short and will be shortened further by the removal of some Jinn material). Abductive  (reasoning) 21:34, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not yet sure what title would be appropriate for the genie artice, but yeah, that's what I would say. Cavila (talk) 13:08, 29 September 2010 (UTC) P. S. I've gone ahead and proposed to rename the article at Talk:Genie. Cavila (talk) 14:25, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:31, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Popular culture-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 00:43, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Keep Leaving aside the Jinn/Genie naming discussion, there is enough scope for a list of genie-related media which is what this basically is. Like virtually all lists of this ilk, it's currently shit but needn't necessarily be, it just needs dragging away from trivial instances of genies and towards media which strongly feature genies. See List of zombie video games, an actively maintained example of what this could and should be like. Someoneanother 04:02, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.