Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joakim Brodén


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Ad Orientem (talk) 01:54, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

Joakim Brodén

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Redirect to his band was reverted twice. Recent edits have not made this more notable, the sexy detail about his vest notwithstanding. Drmies (talk) 20:44, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. North America1000 20:46, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sweden-related deletion discussions. North America1000 20:46, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

 References
 * Comment – Below are a few sources. Of note is that Loudwire is considered to be a reliable source as per WikiProject Albums/Sources. North America1000 20:49, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep I don't know the subject's music. There is only a database of the subject's involvement at AllMusic, but that's common for metal musicians. I ran a Google search and found the following coverage.        . It's not clear if they are all RS, and I'm fairly certain that at least one is a glorified music blog, but loudwire and metalinsider are not. While the article is poorly sourced, that's not a criteria for deletion, and that's discussed at WP:N. Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:01, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep - clearly notable. but article needs work and expansion. but I do not see that as a reason for deletion as of now. he seems to pass WP:GNG.BabbaQ (talk) 21:42, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Y'all, seriously. There's one single interview, in which he is interviewed as the singer of his band, and then there's a story of a dozen sentences about him getting drunk, losing a bet, and walking to a show? Walter Görlitz, I think I know how discussions go, thank you--but you know you can't call someone notable because a few metalzines interviewed him (note that an interview is not in-depth discussion of a topic). (Nuclear Blast is a record label.) BabbaQ, he is obviously not "clearly notable"--I'd love for you to produce some real sources that discuss this man, not the singer of the band. Drmies (talk) 00:34, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
 * It seems as though the subject is moderately notable from what I provided. And yes, metalzines that cover niche topics, are enough. Yes, Nuclear Blast is a record label, and so that ref should be excluded, but while looking at the subject's recordings I found http://www.allmusic.com/album/coat-of-arms-mw0001999035, https://www.thoughtco.com/heavy-metal-reviews-4132871, http://heavymetal.about.com/od/sabaton/fl/Sabaton-Heroes-Review.htm, and charting on [:The Last Stand (Sabaton album)]. Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:12, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Cool--the article certainly needs improvement, esp. better sourcing. But those won't help Joakim or his vest, I'm afraid. Drmies (talk) 05:08, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Weakish Keep – Squeaks by WP:MUSICBIO. The subject has also received a lot of coverage in Blabbermouth, which is considered to be a reliable source per WikiProject Albums/Sources, although some of these are interviews. Last, but not least, I added one secondary and one primary source to verify content about the vest. North America1000 06:14, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep. It is my understanding that membership in a notable band is in itself an adequate criterion for notability under the relevant specialised guideline. In addition, There is a solid trove of coverage of this person in the Swedish press. I noticed that what look like decent sources are listed under Further reading. One of them concerns a story also recounted in this article in a mainstream newspaper, which I hesitate to overbalance the article with, but it can serve to illustrate that he meets GNG: apparently, while impaired, he undertook to walk to the band's next gig, unaware it wasn't even in Sweden but in Trondheim. I have added one less anecdotal reference. Yngvadottir (talk) 18:04, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't believe your first sentence is correct. Point #6 of WP:MUSICBIO says "Is an ensemble that contains two or more independently notable musicians, or is a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles." He doesn't appear to fit either prong.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:24, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Ah yes, I see you're right about the ensemble membership. So I'm standing on GNG. I've struck the first sentence of my !vote (but in the meantime I'd added a second news ref before losing internet access this morning). Yngvadottir (talk) 04:51, 9 June 2017 (UTC)


 * So--we're going to call someone notable because a few papers (well, publications) reported that (as a band member of Sabaton) lost a bet and walked to a show, one paper interviewed him (as a band member), and one Czech news website lists that he was voted on as a good singer (in his band) in a poll no one has heard of. Drmies (talk) 12:18, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm advocating for keeping the article because he's been all over the Swedish newspapers, as well as the music sites. I've gone ahead and added the presumably embarrassing episode with the bet, with references including the BBC and NRK. I've also added his hobby of playing competitive pinball, because the press has devoted entire articles to it. I agree, neither of these speaks to the poetry of his lyrics or the majesty of his voice, and his sartorial style is only slightly more encyclopedic, but all three illustrate the many pixels that have been slain on his account, and not merely because he's the band's spokesperson. I considered mining the interviews for his views on war, Sweden in its era as a great power, and patriotism, but I agree, those are better left for the article on the group since he's articulating positions shared with his bandmates, or that they went along with. And I'll happily see the trivia replaced with solid data on his hometown, education, and other life details, or simply removed, once the article is safe. But since we use breadth and depth of coverage as an index of notability, the fact he's received kinda tabloidy coverage means this is what I present to my peers in support of my statement that he's received lots of press and therefore meets GNG. Yngvadottir (talk) 16:25, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Merge/redirect to his band. Everything is Joakim Brodén of Sabaton, Sabaton's Joakim Brodén. Everything can be covered there. WP:MUSIC Note that members of notable bands are redirected to the band's article, not given individual articles, unless they have demonstrated individual notability for activity independent of the band.. Going for a walk (one tabloid news event) in relation to the band is not activity independent of the band. duffbeerforme (talk) 10:50, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Linguist talk&#124; contribs  07:40, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Sabaton (band). Not independently notable; all sources about him are in the context of the band. Wikipedia does not need two articles on these closely related topics. Anything useful can be picked up from the article history. K.e.coffman (talk) 04:47, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep Per Yngvadottir. /Julle (talk) 15:08, 22 June 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.