Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joe Campos Torres


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. and rename. Some more expansion would, of course, be greatly welcome. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:18, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Joe Campos Torres

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WP:BIO1E. This was a non-notable person who was killed by police. Althought the crime did get coverage, it doesn't make him notable. Nothing is being said about Torres here, except that he's not notable. Niteshift36 (talk) 20:27, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Texas-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:36, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:36, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:37, 21 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete: He was killed, but many people are killed. I would understand an article if his death started something significant. SL93 (talk) 15:57, 21 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep or rename: He wasn't just killed, he was murdered by the Houston police, and that led to national outrage and rioting. Either keep the article or rename it to describe the event.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.200.171.13 (talk) 14:21, 23 June 2013 (UTC) — 98.200.171.13 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Police abusing their power and then having people be angry about it nationwide is not uncommon which includes beating people to death. SL93 (talk) 14:44, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Um, murdered IS killed. And this article says nothing about "national outrage" and mentions some localized riots a year afterwards. Niteshift36 (talk) 15:12, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Police murders are noteworthy. Murder is not identical to killed (you can be killed by a stray bullet or a bad piece of tuna without being murdered).  For national outrage, see the Time magazine article reference.
 * No, police homicides are not inherently notable. They may be newsworthy, but wikipedia isn't a newspaper. I didn't say murder and killed were IDENTICAL. I said murdered is killed. Is there any way you can be murdered and not be killed? No. Don't tell me what you think I mean and just look at what is said. The Time article is behind a subscription wall. Perhaps you should review BIO1E and maybe WP:VICTIM. Niteshift36 (talk) 21:24, 25 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Move to Murder of Joe Campos Torres as per Murder_of_Jeff_Whittington and lots of other murders which are notable when the victims are not. Stuartyeates (talk) 09:35, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd almost agree, but this one doesn't really appear to be that notable. It was mainly a local event. Granted, if the same event were to happen today, it'd get far more coverage, but it simply didn't in that era. Niteshift36 (talk) 11:59, 27 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 18:59, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

 Keep- the concept of "notable" is like the concept of beauty, it is always in the eye of the beholder. The fact that he was not known to you does not mean he was not notable. The death of Jose Campos Torres, and the subsequent Moody Park Riot, are both notable to the civil rights history of the city of houston. It led directly to improvements in the relationship between the houston police department and the hispanic community. The case was later made aware to a larger audience, through the song"Jose Campos Torres" by Gil Scott-Herron. Perhaps you are not familiar with Gil Scott-Herron. Again, the fact that you don't know him does not make him "not notable." There is no reason at all to delete this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bayside54321 (talk • contribs) 18:49, 28 June 2013 (UTC) — Bayside54321 (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Sorry, but where do you see "I don't know him" as one of the reasons listed? I listed policy based reasons. You, on the other hand, have used WP:IHEARDOFIT as your main reason. BTW: I always get a little suspicious when a new account registers and the first thing is does is come to an AfD discussion. Niteshift36 (talk) 19:39, 28 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 20:33, 4 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment: This text would be better worked into a new Moody Park riots article (for which there is plenty of source material) as the catalyst for those riots. - Dravecky (talk) 08:58, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
 * This is a pretty good suggestion. Niteshift36 (talk) 17:55, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Keep - First since it is a minor change I would like propose a spelling change of the first name from Joe to Jose. Secondly, Jose Campos Torres along with other deaths (Murders) not only started a movement but continue to be part of todays strugle for Latinos and African Americans so he is still relevant. This was the onlysite that I found not just a clear understanding of the connecton with what transpired but also a picture of Jose. For those of you who are not familiar with Gil Scott Herrons' "A poem for Jose Campose Torres" I understand why you can not make the connection with him today in 2013. However, as we once again work our way through this depression, aftermath of war (I am a 20yr Vet), and enter into a new era Jose reminds us along with many others, that the followers many time are the ones to pay the ultimate price here at home for change. The leaders from JFK, Martin and possibly next Michell or President Obama may join us but we will surely line the streets before them. Our history has so many holes that one could say our history is yet to be written. From the living Great Grandparents here in Georgia who were born salves or born to slave who were eventually freed during their childhood. To the new researchers who are trying to fill in the gaps. Additionally, I will remind you that many people who use this site (even on phones today) are doing research for personal or educational purposes do not have the time to do what I just went through (yes I'm a newbie). Thank you for your time and understanding. --SFC Burch, Sr. (talk) 17:30, 6 July 2013 (UTC)SFC Burch, Sr.SFC Burch, Sr. (talk) 17:30, 6 July 2013 (UTC)-- — SFC Burch, Sr. (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Merge - I forgot to mention that if a deletion is decide to be necessary I would request the consideration of a merger (in its entirety, to include picture) with a ref to Gil Scott Herrons' --SFC Burch, Sr. (talk) 17:44, 6 July 2013 (UTC)SFC Burch, Sr.SFC Burch, Sr. (talk) 17:44, 6 July 2013 (UTC)-- — SFC Burch, Sr. (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * I appreciate the emotional connection you feel here, but that's not a valid reason to keep an article. An article about my grandfather might mean a lot to me, but that doesn't make him notable. Your !vote should be based on the policies and guidelines, not emotion and "what if's". Niteshift36 (talk) 17:55, 6 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep as renamed to cover the event. Notable murder. Candleabracadabra (talk) 21:38, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Why would you make that change while this is in AfD? Actually, a better suggestion about an article on the Moody Park riots has been put forth. Little premature, aren't you? Niteshift36 (talk) 22:32, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
 * If the subject is better covered in an article about the Moody Park riots I have no objection to that being effectuated. Certainly the subject is better covered in an article about the murder than as a policy violating biographical article. I didn't think article improvements ceased during AfD discussions and based the move on the discussion taking place here. If it needs to be undone until after the discussion concludes, so be it. Candleabracadabra (talk) 22:39, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Moving an article isn't "improvements". Fixing spelling, adding more sourced material etc. Those are improvements. This actions should not have been taken, it pre-empts the process and it should have already been undone. Saying you'll undue it until after ignores that possibility of any outcome besides yours. Niteshift36 (talk) 22:50, 7 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep and Move to Murder of Joe Campos Torres.--BabbaQ (talk) 21:59, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.