Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joe Griffin (psychologist)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. Source and cute analysis seems compelling Spartaz Humbug! 02:42, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Joe Griffin (psychologist)

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

I am not finding anything to indicate that this Irish psychologist and self-help writer meets either WP:GNG or WP:NAUTHOR. He has published prolifically, but none of the refs support GNG. I found only one article which mentions him: https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/helping-humanity-thrive/202303/why-we-dream. I am not sure that my google-fu is in top gear today, so maybe I have missed something ... but so far this all looks to me like promotional stuff with non-RS refs. Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:30, 18 June 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 16:22, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Authors, Psychology,  and Ireland.   Brown HairedGirl  (talk) • (contribs) 15:30, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 16:11, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Comment. I found a couple very brief reviews by the same community health nurse in Nursing Standard magazine (non-academic) of his books Freedom from Addiction and How to Lift Depression--Fast (these would count as one source, if at all), plus another review of the latter in another journal (Mental Health Practice) by the same publisher. There's also a first-person account (primary) in Independent Nurse magazine (non-academic) from a nurse who uses the human givens approach. There are also non-fiction books from Jessica Kingsley Publishers (publishes in Chinese medicine). But the majority of "academic" sources on the approach are from Human Givens Publishing (non-independent) or are in predatory or pseudoscientific journals like Psikiyatride Guncel Yaklasimlar (articles submitted through the predatory publisher ScopeMed), NeuroQuantology,. The ones that aren't are mostly uncited articles in very low-impact journals like Progress in Neurology and Psychiatry (IF 0.185), Mental Health Review Journal (IF 1.51), Educational and Child Psychology (IF 0.49), a lot of them by the same couple authors. Only 8 hits for "human givens therapy" in Scopus keywords, 25 overall. I'm concerned that this is a rather FRINGE method. JoelleJay (talk) 18:25, 28 June 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 17:06, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep, I think. Griffin is widely credited and discussed as a co-founder of the Human Givens approach to psychotherapy, including by authors with no apparent promotional intent, e.g. here, which would seem to meet point 1 of WP:NACADEMIC. (I'll confess I had never heard of "Human Givens" until just now, but then again I am not a psychotherapist and it seems to be a somewhat influential thing about which whole books have been written.) -- Visviva (talk) 23:55, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete If he is the founder of a viable branch of psychology, I do not find expected evidence. His works are barely cited (single digits) in Scholar. There are mentions (only a few) of his "invention" but little about him. I note that articles exist for his co-author, Ivan Tyrrell, about whom even fewer sources exist, and for the technique, Human givens, which appears to be well-sourced. A redirect from Givens (and, IMO, Tyrrell) to the article for the technique would suffice. Lamona (talk) 04:37, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Human Givens Therapy is an established therapy in the UK and Joe Griffin cowrote the book which developed the therapy "Human Givens: The New Approach to Emotional Health and Clear Thinking", which was reviewed by Psychology Today, Starlighsky (talk) 03:43, 4 July 2023 (UTC)Skylighsky
 * Keep
 * There is an article for the Human givens therapy, which that Psychology Today article could be considered in support of. The article you link to does not give information on Griffin, and it is this latter which is needed so that Griffin can have an article on Wikipedia. If you think this Wikipedia article should be retained then you need to provide sources that are substantially about Griffin. Lamona (talk) 22:42, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * OK...Will do, thanks Starlighsky (talk) 00:02, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I edited what I wrote. Joe Griffin and Human Givens Therapy was extensive coverage on Google Scholar, because the therapy is cited quite often. Starlighsky (talk) 02:45, 5 July 2023 (UTC)


 * I also looked at G-Scholar but do not see "extensive" coverage. It would be helpful if you could link to 3 or more of the sources you see there that you consider to be extensive. Note that non-scholarly resources, like this conference (which is held by the HG institute) aren't considered good sources. Also, if I may say so, it might be better if you would "lurk" here for a bit until you understand the AFD culture and the policies that feed into delete/keep decisions. Lamona (talk) 18:07, 6 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.