Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joel Teo


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Paul Erik (talk) (contribs) 01:32, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Joel Teo

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Is #1 Guitar Hero player a notable distinction? It does not seem, at this point, that participation in the World Cyber Games would confer automatic notability like the Olympics would. Most of the content appears to be WP:OR. Might be an autobiography or fan page. -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 10:17, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. JNW (talk) 12:49, 13 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game related deletion discussions. MrKIA11 (talk) 12:55, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi Mufka.

From what I gather in your post, the main issue with the article is that the notability of the subject (Teo), or rather, the notability of the means behind his notability (the WCG) is not substantial enough for the article to take up bandwidth of the Wikipedia servers.

Firstly, I would have to agree with you that participants of the World Cyber Games indeed aren’t given as much recognition as their Olympic counterparts. However, I would also like to point out the parallel between the World Cyber Games and the Olympics. Both of these competitions involve countries from all over the world sending representatives to participate in a wide range of events. The structure of both games are also similar in structure, where participants are ranked based on live performance – the top three are awarded medals – for each event, and the overall winning countries are determined by the total medal count. The only difference now, is the games played at both competitions, and of course their scale.

However, Rome wasn’t built in a day; and neither was the Olympic Games. In 1896, the first ever Olympic Games was held in Athens, Greece. Then, only 14 nations, 241 male athletes participated in 43 events. Comparatively, 78 countries, about 800 gamers, participated in a total of 14 events in WCG 2008. These numbers continue to grow every year. With the advent of the internet, video gaming is an area that is sure to flourish. With many countries starting to focus on building their media industry, competitive gaming is definitely one of the areas that they will be willing to invest into. Give it ten years or so; the World Cyber Games has the potential to become as notable as the Olympic Games have become in over a hundred.

Secondly, you mentioned that the content appears to be original research of the writer. I refer to the article posted here: http://www.rapturegaming.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=137%3Awhen-family-and-games-meet&catid=56%3Afeature-entry&Itemid=110&showall=1. It contains answers given by the subject and his immediate family regarding Guitar Hero during an interview. It states very clearly he started playing in March 2008. His alias can be obtained from his Facebook account username, as well as his Xbox Live Gamertag. Certain information, for example song choice (he chose the same song for every match in the WCG Asian Championship) and competition results, are FACTS. I believe those are undisputable. More personal information like education can be found on his Facebook profile.

Lastly, I have no way to prove this, but however close we, the writers, might seem to be to the subject, knowing all the competition results and somewhat a little about his personal life, we are NOT him himself. Also, the intention of the article was not to publicise him to the rest of the world, not a fan page in any sense. If it seems like one be it because of the tone, language, or use of specific words, kindly point it out to us and we will amend it as soon as we can.

I would think deleting the article would be a little harsh to us first time publishers and we hope that experienced members like yourself can point us in the right direction.

Thanks, oathkeeper93 and kedano —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kedano (talk • contribs) 13:47, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment: The users above are not sockpuppets. I can vouch for that as I know the user in question in real life. This is actually a mistake on the user's part (signing off as two users). Thanks, Chenzw    Talk   14:06, 13 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete - One single independent, third party reliable source, in which "substantial coverage" may be debatable. Unfortunately, that's not enough to pass the bar and meet our inclusion criteriae. Most of the article's content cannot be sourced back to other reliable sources, and is therefore unverifiable. Regarding the original editors' assertion that Rome wasn't built in one day, this is correct, but do also note that by Wikipedia's standards, Romulus and Remus would have had to wait until Rome itself became noted enough to get their own article. Joel Teo may become noted enough to warrant an article in the future, but at present, that is not yet the case. MLauba (talk) 08:50, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - While it may be further argued that the WCG is notable (seeing that it is an international competition anyway), the subject of the article has only participated in the Asian division of the WCG. Not enough for an encyclopedia entry. Chenzw    Talk   12:08, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment: I concede defeat. Thanks all (Kedano (talk) 13:42, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.