Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joey Strickland


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus.  Sandstein  10:29, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Joey Strickland

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Fails WP:BIO. Non-notable JMHamo (talk) 22:35, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Louisiana-related deletion discussions.  Every morning   (there's a halo...)  23:07, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions.  Every morning   (there's a halo...)  23:07, 22 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep! per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(people)#Politicians_and_judges  This stub article needs some TLC!  You can help improve it with constructive edits!  TeriEmbrey (talk) 13:59, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete non-notable person, fails WP:GNG. SportingFlyer  talk  07:04, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete, without prejudice against recreation if someone can write and source it properly. There's a valid notability claim here, but (a) the sourcing isn't getting him over WP:GNG for it, as it consists of primary sources rather than reliable ones, (b) the article reads more like somebody tried to convert his résumé into prose rather than actually writing a properly toned encyclopedia article, and (c) that's not surprising considering that the article was created by User:LAVetAffairs. I'll grant that's more likely to be a staff member of the agency than Strickland himself, but even an employee is still a person with a direct conflict of interest who doesn't get to be starting the article regardless of Strickland's notability or lack thereof. Even for offices that pass NPOL #1, the notability is because media coverage about their work in that role is expected to exist, not because they get an exemption from ever having to actually cite any of it. This would be a clear keep if the article were written and sourced properly by somebody without a COI issue — but in this state of writing tone and sourcing, it's a blow it up and start over. Bearcat (talk) 23:37, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep and tag for improvement. As Bearcat says, running a large government department is a valid claim to notability.  alternatively, allow discussion to continue for another week, and give editors a chance to source it.  Article needs sourcing, but it is not problematic in anyway, merely an inadequate article on a prima facie notable individual.E.M.Gregory (talk) 01:48, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  &spades; 03:58, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Articles for deletion/Log/2018 May 30.  —cyberbot I   Talk to my owner :Online 06:15, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep. Passes NPOL-1, and not that far off from SOLDIER (1 bump). BEFORE does show coverage. Article was improved since nomination. Could it be improved further? Yes. But it isn't in the TNT zone.Icewhiz (talk) 09:45, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * WP:HEY, I did a very slight cleanup of article, removing the worst of the PROMO from the lede, and adding a couple of reliable sources. This should satisfy Bearcat's objections. Do note that he meets WP:NPOL TWICE, heading major government departments first in Arizona, and now in Louisiana.E.M.Gregory (talk) 17:49, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * This may just be semantic about what constitutes a government office, but I know the Arizona position is just a government department, not an elected office, and it appears the Louisiana department is the same. SportingFlyer  talk  18:12, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Wrong. WP:POL.1 specifies: "Politicians and judges who have held international, national or sub-national (statewide/provincewide) office" including judges makes it clear that a cabinet-level appointee qualifies, as Bearcat and Icewhiz state above.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:56, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Dunno. What I do know is that a search of INDEPTH coverage of his years in Arizona carries him soaring over the goalpost of WP:SIGCOV. And Deletion is not cleanup.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:01, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Ehh, are there any other articles you've found about him in Arizona that aren't in the article already? I don't see the "soaring," just a couple articles on how his firing was controversial. SportingFlyer  talk  23:22, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Many. I only made the most cursory start at improving the article.E.M.Gregory (talk) 23:59, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. All I see from him from Arizona are articles about his firing. SportingFlyer  talk  01:03, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Did you read them? Do you know how to run a search?E.M.Gregory (talk) 10:30, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes. There's nothing I can find from Arizona that discusses him in any capacity except for the fact he was fired controversially, even though it looks like it was his own doing: . There are other ways in which he could potentially pass WP:GNG, but I don't think this self-created event would do it. SportingFlyer  talk  18:17, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Meets NPOL because he held a cabinet-level position in Arizona Government of Arizona. Louisiana has a lousy Wikipedia page, but a pretty good press corps [ which puts him in the Cabinet.[[User:E.M.Gregory|E.M.Gregory]] (talk) 10:30, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * State cabinet positions are not elected offices. He could still pass WP:GNG, but he doesn't pass WP:NPOL. SportingFlyer  talk  18:18, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Just to be clear, SportingFlyer, NPOL notability is not conditional on whether the person was elected or appointed to the office they hold — NPOL #1 does cover off things like Canadian senators and UK members of the House of Lords, who are appointed rather than elected, interim US senators who get appointed by the governor as temporary placeholders pending the special election after an elected senator's resignation or death, and federal or state cabinet members in the United States where those operate outside the legislature and thus do not necessarily have to be held exclusively by people who had ever previously been elected to anything. The issue here is the lack of sourcing and the semi-advertorial WP:COI, not the fact that he was appointed and not elected to his position. Bearcat (talk) 17:50, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I understand that, and I wasn't trying to read in something which says he must be elected. I just don't read a state cabinet falling under an "office" in NPOL #1. SportingFlyer  talk  17:54, 5 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Available sources with SIGCOV include:
 * House lauds veterans director for military service'', aid, Rookhuyzen, David. Arizona Republic; Phoenix, Ariz. [Phoenix, Ariz23 July 2012: B.1.]
 * Col. Joey Strickland, Director, Arizona Department of Veterans Services, a Choctaw-Cherokee who has also served as the Director of the Louisiana Governor's Office of Indian Affairs from January 1996 to August 2004. lede sentence in: Group teams up to honor military service women Mangus, Cherokee. News from Indian Country; Hayward, Wis. [Hayward, Wis18 Aug 2008: 10.
 * LA. VETS AGENCY GETS LEADER: [THIRD Edition] The Associated Press. Times - Picayune; New Orleans, La. [New Orleans, La]23 May 1998: A3
 * Commission names new veterans affairs director Advocate; Baton Rouge, La. [Baton Rouge, La]23 May 1998: 10-G.
 * Sir, yes, sir! Courtney Lacour, Melissa Gregory. The Town Talk; Alexandria, La. [Alexandria, La]12 July 1999: A.3. (about retraining Louisiana vets to become teachers)
 * Vets speak out on Strickland's removal, hope Brewer relents Sloane, Arthur. Arizona Republic; Phoenix, Ariz. [Phoenix, Ariz06 Apr 2013: 11. ]
 * Investigation blasts former VA secretary Hilburn, Greg. The Times; Shreveport, La. [Shreveport, La02 Feb 2016: A.1.] about Strickland cleaning up corruption left by predecessor: "Former Louisiana Veterans Affairs Secretary Dave LaCerte is accused of improperly funneling funds to a company owned by former law school classmates, lying about his military service record and inflating travel expenses in a joint report released today by the state's legislative auditor and inspector general...".

Lots more out there.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:34, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * It's certainly closer to WP:GNG than many other local political articles that are out there, even if it's close to the line. My concerns come from the fact his first moment of notability came from his high-profile firing in Arizona, the fact there was a COI with the creation of the page, and the question about whether an appointed position passes NPOL #1 (I don't think it does). I'm also unsure all of those articles show SIGCOV: the Hilburn article only appears to quote him to pass WP:V. Also, it appears he resigned from his position rather than being fired, even if the resignation was controversial. I'll clean that up in case this gets kept. SportingFlyer  talk  00:45, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Untrue. He became notable either when he was appointed  Director of the Louisiana Governor's Office of Indian Affairs in 1996; or when he became executive director of Veterans Affairs in Louisiana in ; or when he became president of the National Association of State Directors of Veterans Affairs in 2003; but not later than 2008 when he became a cabinet member in Arizona.  Also, please be careful not to slander inaccurately and wantonly discredit article subject.E.M.Gregory (talk) 14:50, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I do not appreciate the accusation of slander. I have said nothing untruthful. Furthermore, he did not become notable when he was appointed - that falls outside WP:NPOL, and being appointed only passes WP:GNG if it is very well sourced. SportingFlyer  talk  17:43, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 03:39, 6 June 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.