Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Johan Veenstra


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Spartaz Humbug! 23:16, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Johan Veenstra

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doubtful notability, single source is author's own very bloggy-blog, in Dutch; no edits outside basic maintenance and bots have been done in years Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 07:48, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 09:06, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Netherlands-related deletion discussions. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 09:06, 29 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete there are no indepdent sources at all.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:02, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Poetry-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 13:12, 2 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment, cant find an article on Veestra in dutch WP drat!, from his website has received a number of awards (under Biografie) (a couple superfically appear regional in nature), but cannot find dutchWP articles on them, checking WorldCat his works are held in a handful of libraries (not surprising for books written in a regional language), WorldCat does have the following, some of which appear to be reviews of his work:
 * Wilde gaanzen, Fluitekruud, Een vlinder van zulver, Roman-debuut: een vlinder van zulver-, Naachs goelen de honnen, Boeiende verhaelen in 'De boot naor Valhöll, Ferhalen fan in byldzjend ferteller : 'Een meenske is gien eerpel': nije ferhalebondel fan Johan Veenstra, Verrassend Stellingwarfs, "Toegift" dadde roman van Johan Veenstra., De wereld is gek : boekenijs, Geen Saxonia, maar Longerlaand : harje which if reviews would back a "keep" but again language barrier prevents confirmation of them, that said, i am loathe to outright deletion ("surprise, surprise, coola":)), suggest that if not kept, then a sentence or two can be added to the Stellingwarfs dialect article. Coolabahapple (talk) 15:21, 2 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment have just found the Foundation Stellingwarver Schrieversronte, an organisation that preserves and promotes the Stellingwarfs dialect, on a page that is in english (hooray!) they state "Johan Veenstra is one of the most fruitful authors. He wrote 21 books in the Stellingwarvian language; volumes of poetry, short stories and romans too.", so no. 2 of WP:ANYBIO may be invoked? Coolabahapple (talk) 15:38, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Language-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 15:40, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spirit of Eagle (talk) 01:37, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
 *  Delete ., Although if there were any WP:RS at all I would suggest MERGE to Stellingwarfs dialect, the   tiny language in which he writes.  Feel free to ping me to reconsider if anyone manages to find sources.E.M.Gregory (talk) 18:34, 6 June 2018 (UTC) I will withdraw because I do not have time today to read the sources below.  There is no reason why a contemporary writer in Occitan,  Cornish or Stellingwarfs cannot be notable, but we do need sources.E.M.Gregory (talk) 12:42, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep or at utter least merge into Stellingwarfs dialect. Coverage is regional, which is not unexpected considering the tiny language he writes in, but *nowhere* near as local as the area in which said language is spoken. Said tiny language/dialect is pretty much limited to an area of two muncipialities with a total population between them of ~50,000. The coverage is mostly local to Friesland, Groningen, Drenthe and Overijssel with the occasional mention outside those. However, that's four Dutch provinces, several steps up from how local said language is. He is regarded as a very major part of the Stellingwarfs literary movement and a fairly important figure in the Frisian literary movement; within his area of expertise his body of work is significant and well-known (esp. when considering he was made Knight in the Order of Orange Nassau for it.) Sources unfortunately are just about all either in Dutch, Frisian or a specific dialect. If any specific translation is needed, feel free to ping me.
 * Significant coverage in the Leeuwarder Courant.
 * Significant coverage by sirkwy, a website of Tresoar, the Frisian History and Literature Center. More specifically, sirkwy is Tresoar's website "for documentary information about the Frisian literature" ("foar dokumintêre ynformaasje oer de Fryske literatuer").
 * Above trivial but not particularly significant coverage in Streektaalzang, a website dedicated to dialect music in the Netherlands.
 * A review of Fluitekruud. It is almost certainly insufficiently independent considering Veenstra's position as staffmember at said journal at time of the review. However, it is relevant because it makes mention of another review, by Tiny Mulder in Friesch Dagblad on 12-11-1977 (that'd be 12 November, Netherlands uses day-month-year): "Eers as Tiny Mulder in et Friesch Dagblad van 12-11-1977 mien ik dat et verhael Requiem veur Eli wel liekegoed uutwarkt hieten mag as de verhaelen Heit en Fluitekruud." ("Just as Tiny Mulder in the Friesch Dagblad of 12-11-1977 am I of the opinion that the story 'Requiem veur Eli' can be called equally well developed as the stories 'Heit' and 'Fluitekruid'.") Unfortunately, considering the age of the mentioned review, I have been unable to find it online and do not have access to a physical copy either.
 * Similarly, I have found traces but no online available copies of several other reviews and articles ranging from the mid-70s to about the start of this century.
 * Significant coverage of both Veenstra and his work in Frisian literary journal Trotwaer by Tineke J. Steenmeijer-Wielenga.
 * Significant mention of Veenstra within the larger Frisian literature in "Zolang de wind van de wolken waait. Geschiedenis van de Friese literatuur" 2006, a book about the history of Frisian literature. To cite part: "De gangmakers van het eerste uur, genoemde Bloemhoff, Pieter Jonker (*1952) en Johan Veenstra (*1946) vormen nog steeds de kern van de Stellingwerver taalbeweging." ('The pacesetters of the first hour, being Bloemhoff, Piet Jonker (*1952) and Johan Veenstra (*1946) still form the core of the Stellingwarfs literary movement')
 * Was made Knight in the Order of Orange Nassau in 2001 for "all his work in and for the Stellingwarfs dialect" ("voor zijn werk in en voor het Stellingwarfs"/"foar syn krewearjen foar de Stellingwerfske taal"), as mentioned (in sources about him/his work but not specifically about him being knighted, as well as in sources about the people made Knight in the Order of Oranje) here ("Yn 2001 is Veenstra foar syn krewearjen foar de Stellingwerfske taal beneamd ta Ridder in de Orde van Oranje-Nassau."), here ("Johan Veenstra is in 2001 benoemd tot Ridder in de Orde van Oranje-Nassau voor zijn werk in en voor Weststellingwerf"); source is reliable but essentially trivial as far as coverage/notability goes, here ("In 2001 werd Veenstra benoemd tot Ridder in de Orde van Oranje-Nassau.") and here ("De heechst útrikte ûnderskieding yn Fryslân is de Ridder in de orde van Oranje Nassau. 21 Friezen krigen dy opspjelde. Under har binne de skiedend boargemaster Koopmans, kabaretiere Leny Dijkstra en skriuwer Johan Veenstra.") among other places.
 * Was nominated for the "Streektaalprijs" ("Dialect prize") from Dagblad van het Noorden, 2007 edition (list of nominations of the 2007 prize); won in 2009 and again in 2015 (article in Dagblad van het Noorden regarding the 2015 win which also mentions the 2009 win), which was also covered by media and organizations other than the Dagblad van het Noorden such as Omrop Fryslân here (in regards to the 2015 win, but also mentions the 2009 win), former Dutch literary journal, now literary weblog Tzum here (about 2015; mentions 2009), Stichting Woest & Ledig, an organization "with as aims the development, stimulation and promotion of art and culture in North-East Netherlands" ("heeft als doel het ontwikkelen, stimuleren en onder de aandacht brengen van kunst- en cultuuruitingen in Noord-Oost Nederland.") (here, regarding his 2009 win), RTV Noord here (re:2015 win) and the Leeuwarder Courant here (re: 2015; mentions 2009)
 * Received a bunch of more local prizes as well. As those convey basically no notability, not gonna list them here.
 * Per request above, also pinging . AddWittyNameHere (talk) 07:09, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment: I've made a start at improving the article per the sources I've listed above. AddWittyNameHere (talk) 20:00, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep per sources added by AddWittyNameHere.E.M.Gregory (talk) 20:17, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   10:27, 13 June 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.