Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Christian Hopkins


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  &spades; 02:33, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

John Christian Hopkins

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non notable author, awards are not major, lacks coverage about Hopkins in independent reliable sources. mix of primary, local puff and non reliable sources. I found nothing better. duffbeerforme (talk) 13:25, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I guess I would respectfully disagree that his awards are not "major"; within the world of ethnic and Native American journalism, the NAJAA awards are actually quite prestigious. It is true that, so far, his fiction and poetry have only received coverage in relatively local newspapers; but it is also true that he is beginning to attract scholarly attention (his work will appear in a book next year with the University of Nebraska Press, for instance).  I wonder if it is possible simply to flag the article as needing source-updating and improvement, rather than deleting it entirely? [In the interest of full disclosure I will add that I am teaching a university course with a component on  Wikipedia, and that this article was written by two of my students for that course.] Thanks so much for your attention.Ssenier (talk) 13:45, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * A google news search for "NAJAA Awards" comes up with one unrelated result. duffbeerforme (talk) 13:55, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * As an aside. I hope that you mark based on the quality of your students work instead of their chosen subjects notability (unless that's an important part of the class). duffbeerforme (talk) 14:03, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The search you carried out had an inaccurate spelling, so it's not surprising that it would return zero results. A search for "NAJA Awards" brought up quite a few - I then narrowed that down with an additional modifier to produce this . They're certainly notable awards. Vizjim (talk) 11:37, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * A bunch of organisations congratulating themselves on having won an award. Which are independent. Put your search thru google news. what do you get? No results found for "NAJA awards" "native american". duffbeerforme (talk) 12:25, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, there is a result in Google News. This seems like a case of chop logic. Vizjim (talk) 11:48, 24 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete - Per nom; there's a paucity of mainstream RS for this subject. An initial glance makes it look like a delete. NickCT (talk) 14:00, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * While a search for "NAJAA Awards" may come up sparse, a search for "Native American Journalist Association Awards" comes up with a variety of related articles.Othomas39 (talk) 16:10, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep. I know this argument isn't always popular, but numbers matter when discussing Native American writers.  Hopkins is significant because he is one of very few Narragansett writers, and one of very few opinion columnists from any tribe at the time his career began, as noted in Sage's Encyclopedia of Journalism  (p. 320).  Wikipedia criteria are usually good but can distort the argument when it comes to very small tribal nations (Narragansett have less than 3000 members). Vizjim (talk) 11:44, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * It's not a popular argument because it is fundamentaly flawed. Being Native American is not part of any Wikipedia notability policy, he is judged the same as others. I am one of the few Wikipedia editors from my street, does that make me notable? No. Sage just has a passing mention, nothing indepth. We don't treat small tribal nations as something different, would you apply the same argument to a town of less than 3000? To a street of less than 3000? duffbeerforme (talk) 12:19, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
 * No, because those are not tribal nations with tribal sovereignty.Vizjim (talk) 11:46, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep. I think you have to define "non notable author". This author has five books out, received awards, and is a nationally syndicated columnist. All of that certainly seems notable; he is respected enough to garner multiple book deals and has been printed in newspapers around the country. If this author's page should be deleted for "notability" concerns, than I am sure many others should be as well. BromoSapien (talk) 16:29, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * WP:AUTHOR. Already been defined. duffbeerforme (talk) 12:19, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep. Since this debate began, two more reliable sources have been added: the book by Michael Ward, and the SAGE Encyclopedia of Journalism.Ssenier (talk) 02:45, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The first is by him, not about him. The second is a simple namecheck. duffbeerforme (talk) 12:19, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:30, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of News-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:30, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:30, 17 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep but limit the article to his journalism, not his self-published novels, only one of which is even in World (and that one, in essentially no libraries). Including non- encyclopedic material of that sort indicates a promotional intent.  DGG ( talk ) 02:18, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.