Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Cohen (NASCAR owner)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Clearly a vanity article, but this is a biography with no sources. Mr Cohen may possibly be notable, but there's no way of determining this from the article, and since a number of editors have searched for such sources without success, then at the moment it needs to go. Black Kite 10:56, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

John Cohen (NASCAR owner)

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

I did some further research on this person at both NASCAR.com and Jayski.com, and I find his claims of ownership in the Cup, Nationwide, and Truck series to be a bit thin. I only found an entry in the Nationwide series owners points with car #58. Furthermore, his team is listed as a part-time team, something which doesn't help with notability.

However, it seems that he has partnered with another part-time team, the #07 team owned by Armando Fitz of SK Motorsports as I have seen the same sponsors on both cars at the races the #58 team has made. Not sure that helps with notability either, but there it is.

In my objective view, this person fails WP:N as I don't believe he has done enough as an owner to establish notability, especially since claiming he is in all three series yet I could only find him listed in one. ArcAngel (talk) 20:19, 3 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete I do believe that owners of NASCAR teams are notable. However, this is a vanity article written by User:John Cohen Nascar which reads like a promotional piece. I see little content worth salvaging. I don't mind if someone wants to recreate the article with reliable sources, which are available online. He did make a recent television appearance on BET which would add to his notability.  Royal broil  03:03, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep Struck out delete. Thanks for the research, ArcAngel. I looked and didn't find much. Per this link from a reliable source (which is frequently used in NASCAR articles), Mr. Cohen has a documented race as a team owner in NASCAR's Nationwide Series which proves notability. There are articles on many Nationwide owners, although most of them own Sprint Cup Series teams which are more notable. In my opinion, Nationwide teams are notable enough because they are well documented by American media. The article needs serious cleanup to get rid of the many peacock terms. It reads like a promotional piece written by a publicist. It needs to be changed because Wikipedia is a serious encyclopedia written in formal tone.  Royal broil  12:23, 5 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment Arc Angel My publiscit Stacey Rodriguez prepared this article which i agree needs to be recreated a little I actually put it up to see how it looks . As far as Armando Fitz I own the points from Sk Motorsports the way NASCAR works the previous year whoever owns the points the name must stay as Car owner as you see Teresa Earnhardt is listed under number she doesnt even own any more thats a sticky situation that Nascar created so people would not cheat .  I believe I am  very Notable Person maybe not as Famous as the rest but I am The onlly African American 100% owner in this sport.   I am the hope that diversity will come to a sport that has been long overdue  as far as Three Series  I am a registerd Cup Nationwide and Truck Owner  —Preceding unsigned comment added by John Cohen Xxxtreme Motorsport (talk • contribs) 05:28, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment Mr. Cohen, no disrespect was intended by my actions of nominating your article for deletion, so after some thought and in order to give you the benefit of the doubt, I did some research to try and find reliable sources to verify your claims of notability in the article. Unfortunately, I was not able to find that many, and none of which back up your claim that you have teams in all three series.  The link to the homepage does not count as a reliable source.  The sources I was able to find that verify your Nationwide Series ownership:
 * Nationwide Series Owner Statistics (from www.racing-reference.info)
 * Entry List for Subway Jalapeno 250 Powered By Coca-Cola (from FoxSports.com)
 * Chase Austin :to debut with xXxtreme Motorsport (from Scene Daily)


 * Other sources I tried were:


 * http://www.rotoworld.com
 * http://www.racingone.com
 * http://www.motorracingnetwork.com/
 * http://stockcarspin.com
 * http://www.nascar.com


 * As for your claim that you are a registered car owner in three national racing series, I found no online reliable third-party source to back that claim up. I don't know if anyone else can contribute their research to this discussion, or if anyone else even wishes to put their voice in, but I would hope that they would so that your notability can be established or not.
 * ArcAngel (talk) 07:37, 5 September 2009 (UTC)


 * If you have a email address I can send you my owners papers from nascar stating Im a owner in all three series —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.254.242.66 (talk) 16:44, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Mr. Cohen, it's not that simple. E-mailing me your documents is not enough to assert notability.  Sources that have significant news coverage are what we are looking for, and so far - there are none or very few that do that.  ArcAngel (talk) 18:57, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JForget  22:06, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.

IF this page is edited with changes thats not a promotional piece and more informative. Will that help this article from deletion, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.70.51.33 (talk) 00:49, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * If the page was re-worded to be more neutral, that still may not be enough. As I stated above, there has to be verifiable third-party sources that backup your claims of notability.  If there were more sources from NASCAR.com or any of the other reliable sources from above, that could be enough but as it stands now this article has no chance of surviving.  ArcAngel (talk) 18:57, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

So are you claming I am not a Nascar owner —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.194.27.104 (talk) 14:56, 14 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete I have no doubt that John Cohen is a NASCAR owner. However, that is not enough for inclusion in Wikipedia. We require that the information we present be verifiable&mdash;that is, it can be verified. Right now, we have a biography with no sources. And though this article has likely been written/approved by the subject, there is no way of guaranteeing that future additions by semi-anonymous or anonymous editors would be the same. Searches for sources came up negative: "john cohen" nascar owner and "XXXtreme Motorsport". The links provided above are enough to establish that Cohen is a NASCAR owner, but not enough to notability as a NASCAR owner. There has not been published reliable secondary source material independent of the subject. Currently fails WP:BIO and the WP:GNG. If sources can be found, I have no problem with this article existing. I do have a problem with unreferenced biographies of living persons. -Atmoz (talk) 03:25, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Unionhawk Talk E-mail Review 01:57, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.

I cleaned up this article and added some references — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.70.51.33 (talk • contribs)

Note: I've commented out this AFD discussion on the September 10 log and added it on the September 19 log. I think it did not appeared in the log despite the relist earlier. JForget 21:58, 19 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment I'm not here to offence you Mr. Cohen, but I must tell you that it strongly recommended to not create an article about yourself WP:YOURSELF as this will (most of the time) cause Conflict of Interest WP:COI. Moreover I like to point out that there is not much 3rd party references/sources to indicate your notability. If you are that notable, then we could easily find sources on Goggle, which is not the case here. Also, if you are that notable, someone would have already written an article about you... and not you writting an article about yourself... I suggest to weak delete. Jolenine  (Talk - Contribs) 01:21, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

I am very offended I didn't right this article but I am here to defend my notability for a long time I stayed quite on PR until i felt it was time to start my Pr push I have many article in magazines coming out in december. I am NASCAR owner which is very creditable  and notable. People from Sean Combs to Jay Z support my team and they think Im Notable Ive met the President he thinks Im notable what gives you the right to say Im not —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.192.116.183 (talk • contribs) 22:35, 21 September 2009
 * Big claims as you say the President thinks you are notable, but where are the sources? You know, saying it out loud is not enough and useless. You need to provide sources/references, so that the Wikipedia community can verify what you just said, what you claim to be. Jolenine  (Talk - Contribs) 22:42, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

You already made up your conclusion do what you have to do  Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.70.51.33 (talk • contribs) 01:42, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.