Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Henry Rasor


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus.  MBisanz  talk 01:16, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

John Henry Rasor

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I'm not seeing much for this American pioneer, just this mention in the book Historic Downtown Plano. Clarityfiend (talk) 22:37, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It's always good to see an article talking of 2010 in the future tense. &#9786;  Uncle G (talk) 22:57, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Texas-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:31, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:31, 15 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Courcelles 01:03, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

 
 * Delete Local heroes are not necessarily notable. Shii (tock) 11:27, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep. I pumped it up a bit. Enough people in and around Plano, Texas have thought this farmer is notable enough to deserve a published mini-bio, and that is sufficient. Aymatth2 (talk) 16:17, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Courcelles 04:08, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep. I heard of this guy in a college American history class, and I neither live in Texas nor specialize in Texas history. Bacchiad (talk) 04:57, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete Unless there is something here that I am not seeing. The claim of notability is that he was a "pioneer", which can be used figuratively but the usual meaning in terms of western American history is one of the earliest European-American settlers of an area. He simply wasn't a pioneer. Rasor came to Plano, Texas in 1883, when Texas was thoroughly settled. Texas became an independent republic in 1836 and a state of the union in 1845. It seceded from the union in 1861 and returned in 1870. The Plano area was settled in the 1840s, and it isn't exactly remote, as it is only 20 miles from Dallas. Railroad service came to Plano in 1872, the town was incorporated in 1873, and it was described as a flourishing business center in the 1880s. So, in what sense was Rasor a pioneer? He was simply a successful cotton farmer. He's mentioned in a local history book by Arcadia Publishing which isn't exactly a university press. He has a local elementary school and a road named after him. He's just like millions of other solid non-notable people around the world. I just don't see the notability.  Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  06:04, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Notability is not really to do with achievement, which is a very subjective concept, or even with fame, also subjective. The test is that multiple independent sources have written about the subject. He is notable because various sources have found him worthy of note, researched and recorded his life. Millions of people are indeed notable. Most are not. Aymatth2 (talk) 12:52, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep I think having a school named after him is enough to show notability. FurrySings (talk) 06:30, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep Clearly appropriate for wikipedia. ♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld  16:27, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep - He is the namesake of an elementary school, that gets us pretty much to the finish line, notability-wise, in my estimation. Carrite (talk) 18:15, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Now, if somebody wants to run Rasor Elementary School to AfD, I have another opinion about that... Carrite (talk) 18:19, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete Hardly a "pioneer" per Cullen, and fails WP:BIO. Edison (talk) 02:32, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
 * He was a pioneer of Texas cotton farming, but that is not relevant. The basic criterion for WP:BIO, which this person clearly meets, is "he or she has been the subject of multiple published secondary sources which are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject." Aymatth2 (talk) 20:46, 28 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep as subject appears to cross both the verifiability and notability thresholds. - Dravecky (talk) 07:29, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment I see the emerging consensus to keep, and that's OK with me, I guess. But I really have a problem with this term "pioneer" being applied to this man. I demonstrated clearly that he was not a Texas pioneer in the conventional sense, because he came to Plano in 1883, well after it was a thriving commercial town served by a railroad. Now, we have Aymatth2 saying that instead, he was a "pioneer" in Texas cotton farming. Hmmmm, interesting. Anglo-American colonists farmed cotton in Texas starting in 1821. There was a sharp rise in production in the 1850s, and the state produced 431,645 bales of cotton in 1859. Rasor came to Texas a quarter of a century later. So, in what sense was he a "pioneer" of Texas cotton farming? Why is he notable? Because of some trivial local press reports. A school district website has published a little biographical sketch of dubious reliability. Arcadia Publishing, which publishes local books by the thousands written by local writers, has mentioned him in a couple of sentences. Are those really truly reliable sources, with a reputation for accuracy and fact checking? Are a handful of mediocre published sources enough to establish notability for a biography, especially absent an actual reliable claim of notability? Is every farmer and life insurance salesman and car dealer and pharmacist who has accumulated a few press clippings "notable"? Then why do we delete biographies of young musicians and models and soccer players and minor league baseball players and managers? Most of them have a handful of press clippings as well. I simply don't think this ordinary cotton farmer was notable enough for a Wikipedia biography, but I must accept the consensus decision, whatever it may be.  Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  02:14, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Glaring factual errors All of the stuff in the article about the self-sufficiency of the earlier settlers comes from the Arcadia Publishing book, but applies to an entirely different Plano family called the Formans. But the author of that amateurish book about the old days in Plano didn't have a photo of the Formans, did have a photo of the Rasors, and stuck that in instead. Pasting in an available photo turns the Rasors into "pioneers". The source conflates hunting wild hogs with slaughtering commercially farmed hogs. This is what passes for a "reliable source" establishing notability. Sorry, not for me.  Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  02:26, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
 * There is no reason to doubt that the Rasors hunted and gathered wild food, particularly when they were getting started. That is what all rural people did in those days, and what many still do, which is why I have venison in my freezer. Aymatth2 (talk) 16:59, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The Rasors well have done so, but perhaps they were too busy raising cotton and hogs. We don't know. The cited source simply doesn't say they did these things. The source says that another family called the Formans engaged in those activities, but not the Rasors. To say the Rasors did these things is pure speculation, and we aren't supposed to speculate in this encyclopedia.  Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  22:23, 1 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep. Clearly meets GNG.  The argument about the school being named after him should not be a factor in determining notability, it should be based on reliable sources.  GregJackP   Boomer!   13:48, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Do you really consider these sources "reliable"?  Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  22:24, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Yup. I knew the Wells, Harrington, and Schell families that provided some of the information, and unless you can show me that it's not reliable, I'll stick with my position.  You have two published works, both by reliable publishers (and neither are self-publish houses).  You have a news article (obit) from the Star-Courier, which is reliable.  GregJackP   Boomer!   02:19, 2 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Weak keep I came to this thinking I wold vote delete, but I'm not naturally a deletionist. My main prolem is this: he didn't do anything notable except own a lot of land. Maybe if he owned a quantifiably and unusually large amount of land (4,000 doesn't seem unusual for a rancher), I'd make this a strong keep. If he held any office, I'd also say tis was strong. Otherwise, I'm voting keep solely because I think local history gets undercut on Wikipedia by AfD-happy editors, and although not all local heroes are inherently notable, Wiki isn't so small of a place that it can't be inclusive. I do agree with Cullen to the extent that everyone here is forgetting that WP:GNG states tha being found in reliable sources creates only a presumption of notability, not a guarantee.  Cdtew  (talk) 02:57, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.