Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Hoyle (died 1692)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep.  So Why  12:26, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

John Hoyle (died 1692)

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Doesn't meet WP:BIO or WP:GNG. Prod was removed by creator with no edit summary or discussion. Notability is not inherited, and the only claims to notability here are being the son of a notable person and the friend of a notable person. Boleyn (talk) 06:32, 16 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete, No credible claims to importance or significnce that add up to notability, broadly construed. Fails WP:BIO and WP:GNG. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:47, 16 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Boleyn, as explained in the Talk Page (I did not remove the deletion tag without discussing it), the article meet the WP:BIO John Hoyle is extensively present in the writing of Aphra Behn, one of the first women playwright in England, but he is also discussed in writing about LGBTQ History, due to his trial for Sodomy.
 * Boleyn and Kudpung, moreover when I tagged John Hoyle from the Aphra Behn page, the link from the Aphra Behn page was point to a "wrong" John Hoyle, lived almost 100 years after the right one. It's confusing to researcher, who, without the right page, could be mislead.
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 12:10, 16 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 12:10, 16 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Law-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 12:11, 16 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 12:11, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi,, sorry, I've struck the comment that you removed it without discussion, but as you removed it without an edit summary and without pinging anyone to join a discussion, this was missed. Misdirected links can be corrected by removing the link, rather than creating an article. Boleyn (talk) 12:35, 16 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete - 1 letter from Behn and a trial for sodomy is not sufficient to make him notable. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:23, 16 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Peterkingiron, It's not just one letter, one letter is what I have used as quoted text cause it was referring to the homosexuality of Hoyle. Hoyle is more present in Behn's writings, only that I do not think is the case to quote all of them. It has also being said that Hoyle was one of Behn's lovers, but that is all interpretation from their letters. We are talking of people from 400 years ago, it's difficult to discern what is true and what is implied.--Elisa.rolle (talk) 20:02, 16 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete. His father's notable; he isn't, nor can he inherit notability from his association, whatever it may be, with Behn. Reconsidering ... Clarityfiend (talk) 01:13, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep, or at the very least a much more substantial presence in Behn's article . A surprising amount is known about this fellow. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:25, 17 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep - looking over the current sources and a google books search for Hoyle and Behn, there seems to be quite a bit of coverage, enough to pass WP:V, WP:NPOV, WP:NOR, and WP:GNG. Smmurphy(Talk) 16:11, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Merge to Aphra Behn per notability WP:NOTINHERITED; he seems mainly notable for his relationship to her and his influence on her work. Besides that, his crimes and lawsuits don't meet WP:CRIME, and his political career was described in the only source about him as "not a particularly prominent member of the York corporation" and as "[leaving] little trace on the parliamentary records."  His most notable personal achievement seems to have been obtaining the office of Lord Mayor of York, but going from List of Lord Mayors of York that doesn't seem notable enough in an of itself and fails WP:POLITICIAN. [that apparently was his father not him] - GretLomborg (talk) 21:41, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Actually, his father was Lord Mayor. However, consider how much is known about this 17th century person. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:54, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
 * .I was confused and didn't realize so much of the article content and sources were about his father and not him. That makes him even less wiki-notable in my eyes per WP:NOTINHERITED.  Being merely documented is not sufficient for notability.  He just seems like an average well-off 17th century guy who had legal problems and an association with a wiki-notable writer. GretLomborg (talk) 14:58, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Opinions are all over the place - needs more discussion

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  11:01, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep as per above comments, Hoyle is more than only a name attached to Behn, therefore the independency of his page is needed.--Elisa.rolle (talk) 13:40, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep - The article as it now sits shows sufficient sourcing to fulfill our General Notability Guideline. Carrite (talk) 21:55, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep per recent article improvements; sufficiently sourced at this point and establishes independent notability of the subject. K.e.coffman (talk) 17:47, 29 July 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.