Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John J. Davis (theologian)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. The !votes are evenly divided, the discussion appears to revolve around the subject meeting WP:PROF or not. There are persuasive arguments on both sides, I do not see how a consensus could gel from that. No comments since last relist. (non-admin closure) Ifnord (talk) 01:32, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

John J. Davis (theologian)

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One affiliated source. Nothing obvious on Google other than book jacket bios, which are not independent. Guy (help!) 08:12, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete - Seems to fail WP:GNG, no reliable secondary sources unaffiliated with the subject.  He  iro  08:24, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete an under sourced article on a theologian.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:11, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions.  MT Train Talk 17:51, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Indiana-related deletion discussions.  MT Train Talk 17:51, 21 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep: passes WP:PROF #6 as President of Grace Theological Seminary, but also through his Google Scholar results. It is hard searching for his name, but looking at the books mentioned in the article, Paradise to Prison has 65 cites, and Moses and the Gods of Egypt has 78 cites - both very high for this subject area. StAnselm (talk) 22:00, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment Apparently a Festschrift in his honour was published in 2010 by Chalice Press. (I believe it's this book.) Also, if this is kept, it really should be moved, since John Jefferson Davis is also a theologian. Cheers, gnu 57 03:18, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. gnu 57  10:59, 22 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep as passes WP:Prof criterion 6 and multiple reliable sources references such as Star Tribune, Christianity Today and others have been added to the article since nomination so that deletion is no longer necessary in my view Atlantic306 (talk) 17:44, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep meets GNG due to extensive citations.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 22:59, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete. Citations not found, and WP:PROF not passed for such a minor institution. Xxanthippe (talk) 00:59, 24 May 2020 (UTC).
 * Keep -- 19 books should make him notable as an author. An Emeritus appointment means that someone thinks he is important.  Theological colleges are typically small, so that being head of one might be equivalent to being head of a university department, but that is usually enough for notability.  Peterkingiron (talk) 19:29, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
 * There is no evidence that he published 19 books and, anyway, just publishing stuff contributes nothing to notability. It is having the stuff noted by others that counts. Please produce the evidence for this. Xxanthippe (talk) 22:29, 24 May 2020 (UTC).


 * , 19 Christian books is about equivalent to 4 normal books., Guy (help!) 23:17, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I think that the imputation of the comment above is offensive and I dissociate myself from it. Xxanthippe (talk) 00:44, 25 May 2020 (UTC).


 * Delete Running a seminary of 120 students does not qualify for NPROF; chairing a department does not either per the above comparison. Sources lack in-depth coverage to establish notability, and just publishing a bunch of writings does not automatically qualify one for an article – Guy nis to an extent correct. Reywas92Talk 00:49, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
 * He certainly hasn't just "publishing a bunch of writings". As demonstrated above, at least two of those books have been extensively cited. And there is no guideline that suggests a seminary of that size is too small or insignificant for our purposes. StAnselm (talk) 01:44, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
 * No guideline says either “any leader of a tiny educational institution is automatically notable” or “any person who has written books that have an arbitrary number of citations is automatically notable.” I still expect a modicum of significant coverage of the individual to get to passing GNG; those added do not demonstrate that. Reywas92Talk 03:43, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
 * If the subject passes WP:PROF, then it doesn't have to pass WP:GNG. And even if it fails #6, it certainly passes #1 (because of the Festschrift if nothing else). StAnselm (talk) 04:50, 25 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete- a clergyman who digs the earth is not an archaeologist. There seems to be a lack of sources that would be either reliable or independent from the subject. It seems that not even creationism investigators have been interested in the individual. Place Clichy (talk) 12:02, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Target.com sells four of his books at affordable prices. He was also part of the group that translated the NIV Bible.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 23:01, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Well spotted. And in addition to the two books I mentioned above, Biblical Numerology has 50 Google Scholar cites. Clearly not just a run of the mill clergyman. StAnselm (talk) 00:05, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep or at least Merge to Grace Theological Seminary. I am an inveterate deletionist on Wikipedia, so this is a little weird for me, but I think that presidents of this institution probably should be documented. There are plenty of sources about this little outfit which played an outsized role in a number of American religious movements including, but not limited to, creationism and fundamentalism. I am not sure every president of the institution deserves a standalone article, so I can see an argument for merging to the Seminary, but I can see enough sources out there about this fellow that a WP:CFORK might even be inevitable, which makes me think that keep is probably the right answer here. jps (talk) 11:14, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Incidentally, to reiterate, there definitely are sources out there which document this fellow that are sufficiently independent. However, a lot of them are fairly obscure because they are from 30 to 40 years ago, and you may need to get some serious library access to do the research. One I was able to find just sifting through Google Books is this entry in the Gale Research Contemporary Authors New Revision Series from 1978. Much of the real work for this biography would probably need to be done in a high-quality library and not online. jps (talk) 11:35, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Java Hurricane  09:25, 29 May 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.