Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Marshall Clemens


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Consensus is that this subject meets WP:GNG. (non-admin closure) sst✈(discuss) 03:58, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

John Marshall Clemens

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PROD contested with the rationale that AFD would be more suitable based on him being Mark Twain's father. However, notability is not inherited, and being related to someone famous does not by itself make one notable. Subject fails WP:Notability (people) since he wasn't noted for anything other than family affiliations. Snuggums (talk / edits) 18:52, 16 November 2015 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Redirect to Mark Twain. Or merge to retain page history, but most if not all of the pertinent info here is already included there. Agree with nom that notability is not inherited, and without his connection to Mark Twain, this person is not notable.  Onel 5969  TT me 15:21, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — UY Scuti Talk  20:57, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  Musa  Talk  22:22, 23 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete and Redirect --- no reliable sources. Could be a footnote in Twain article, but that's it.DreamGuy (talk) 00:11, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep I don't understand the complicated rules governing wp:AfD, but as a wiki-reader I would be very curious to find ot more about the father of Mark Twain. I cannot believe this discussion has not drawn out more editors? Ottawahitech (talk) 16:49, 29 November 2015 (UTC)please ping me
 * WP:INTERESTING is not exactly a valid reason to keep articles. Snuggums (talk / <b style="color:#454545">edits</b>) 19:50, 29 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment - We all know about NOTINHERITED, but the fact that he is best known as Mark Twain's father is not a disqualifier either. Coverage in The Mark Twain Encyclopedia clearly counts as 1 substantial, independently-published source of presumed notability. Let's see if there are more... Searching... 18:32, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Decent short bio from THE MARK TWAIN PROJECT, that's two towards GNG. Carrite (talk) 18:34, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Five mentions listed in the index for the book TWAIN IN HIS OWN TIME edited by Gary Scharnhorst (University of Iowa Press, 2010). Carrite (talk) 18:38, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
 * The law office of JMC, a justice of the peace and lawyer, is being PRESERVED AS A HISTORICAL MONUMENT. That gets me over the top for GNG — although there are probably a few more things out there if one wants to spend time to find them.


 * Keep- as a pass of GNG, based on the above. It is a fact that the judge was the father of Mark Twain and that this was his primary claim to historical fame. That is neither here nor there with regards to notability — neither an automatic keep nor an automatic disqualifier. The fact is that he is the subject of scholarly interest and coverage demonstrated in multiple instances of significant coverage in sources of presumed reliability, which is what we are looking for here. Carrite (talk) 18:45, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
 * The relevant notability criteria for biographies (which he fails to meet) is WP:Notability (people). There's more nuance than simply "is covered in reliable sources". Occupations not withstanding, he wasn't really noted for anything of his own merit beyond being Mark Twain's father. <b style="color:#454545">Snuggums</b> (<b style="color:#454545">talk</b> / <b style="color:#454545">edits</b>) 19:50, 29 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep, though barely. I found precisely one reference to him in a search of the NY Times archive.  There appear to be a few others that barely meet GNG, when WP:GOOGLETESTed, but clearly his main accomplishment was fathering Samuel Clemens. 05:54, 30 November 2015 (UTC)Fiachra10003 (talk)
 * Not exactly enough. When only really noted for being Twain's father, he doesn't warrant a separate article no matter how many references are available. <b style="color:#454545">Snuggums</b> (<b style="color:#454545">talk</b> / <b style="color:#454545">edits</b>) 15:00, 30 November 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.