Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John McClure (pilot)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 19:16, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

John McClure (pilot)

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Fails WP:GNG not one reference is from an RS or not primary. References are: 1) a pilot roster; 2 & 3) photographs; 4) the subject's wife's obituary in the local newspaper; 5) what appears to be a self-written family history by the subject's nephew on a local community organization's website; and 6) a listing of members of the Tuskegee Airmen from the greater Indianapolis area. GPL93 (talk) 21:57, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. GPL93 (talk) 21:57, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Indiana-related deletion discussions. GPL93 (talk) 21:57, 21 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete Fails GNG. Intothatdarkness 22:45, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete fails WP:BASIC. Source analysis shows the subject doesn't have coverage required to establish notability.Mztourist (talk) 03:20, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep Tuskegee Airmen are notable based on their Congressional Gold Medal (2007) and their historic role in the integration of the US Army Air Force We do not delete article when the subject meets our notability requirements. Notability for this WP:NEXIST Lightburst (talk) 03:02, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The Unit is notable and has an article, but individuals are not unless proven through significant coverage by reliable sources and literally none of the sources in this article are. Best, GPL93 (talk) 03:19, 23 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete Tuskegee airmen are NOT notable based on a Congressional Gold Medal (the group is), the Gold Medal wasn't awarded to this fellow individually, but to all 994 Tuskegee airmen, and it wasn't even physically presented to individual Tuskegee airmen; the only one made was "presented" to representatives of the group then retained by the Smithsonian. This fellow does not meet the GNG, as he personally does not have significant coverage in multiple reliable sources independent of the subject. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:33, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment: Our guideline here is WP:ANYBIO - The subject passes 2 parts: 1. for receiving a well known and significant award, and 2. For his...widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in a specific field. We have policy based reasons for WP:PRESERVING and finding WP:ALTERNATVESTODELETION. Lightburst (talk) 19:16, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
 * He does not pass #1 of ANYBIO a unit award of the Congressional Gold Medal does not meet the criteria which is for an individual award. #2 is a highly debatable assertion, just being part of a group doesn't satisfy it so WP:BASIC is the relevant policy to look at. Mztourist (talk) 03:01, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I know what guidelines apply, thanks. He doesn't meet any of them, be it ANYBIO or GNG. He didn't personally receive this award, the group of Tuskegee airmen received it, and it therefore doesn't meet #1. What widely recognised contribution did this individual pilot make? None I can see. The Tuskegee airmen as a group, plenty. But they have their own article because they are notable as a group. He isn't individually notable though. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:04, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your opinion. We are WP:NOTPAPER and there is room for interpretation within our guidelines. This person did not run afoul of the law or get arrested - he did not go on a speaking tour. If he had we would have news articles to say he is notable. Instead, he made history breaking the color barrier and then he suffered from injuries related to his P-40 crash in Tuskegee. This person went home and in 1953 he died from complications related to his injuries from the crash. I met one of these heroes a few years ago at an aviation show (George Hardy). Back to the medal that is dismissed so loudly: as you know - one reason the medal was a collective award: it was approved in 2006 and conferred in 2007 - 64 years after the war when most were dead. But we do not need to focus on this prestigious medal, but we should focus on the "widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record". Now I have been working on the article, and several others that are at Afd so I hope you can circle back before the close of this Afd. One day I hope we can create an article for every last one of these heroes. Lightburst (talk) 14:22, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
 * That's pure WP:ILIKEIT and INHERITED. Mztourist (talk) 14:43, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
 * You just referred to two essays? How about guidelines and policies? Again you do not need to attack any keep ivote rationale. Other editors will show up and interpret the guidelines. I am using policies and guidelines to determine notability. FYI: this food fight takes away from actual editing. Lightburst (talk) 15:41, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Irony much? You are criticizing Peacemaker67's delete !vote rationale, so you don't get to criticize me for questioning a keep !vote. Mztourist (talk) 06:50, 25 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete Second Lieutenant who did not serve in combat, no other particular distinctions. Buckshot06 (talk) 15:10, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete - Fails GNG. A unit award of the Congressional Gold Medal does not confer individual notability. -Indy beetle (talk) 16:42, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails GNG.4meter4 (talk) 19:58, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete The available references are often unreliable sources, user-submitted websites, or image galleries; the actual coverage is unsubstantial and WP:ROUTINE stuff like career promotions. Obviously, the award establishes the notability of the airmen as a group, not each of its 1000 members. Avilich (talk) 19:11, 28 September 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.