Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Michael Greer


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. There's only one viable, policy-based "keep" opinion, that by Green Cardamom; the other by Tom Ruen must be discounted because being an "active blogger, published author, and public speaker" are not among our inclusion criteria. And since Green Cardamom's arguments haven't convinced anybody else...  Sandstein  10:42, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

John Michael Greer

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )


 * Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Articles for deletion/Log/2013 December 7.  — cyberbot I  Notify Online 16:47, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions.  Jinkinson   talk to me  17:04, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions.  Jinkinson   talk to me  17:04, 7 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete - This article is self promotion about someone who is not notable. The article was created by someone who stopped posting on Wikipedia soon after the article was created; it has no reliable sources, and of the "sources" listed, one does not exist and the other two are websites about Greer; the article begins with a list of vague and meaningless titles; the bibliography is a long list of pamphlets with no page numbers. This whole article is an advertisement for Greer and likely written by Greer. Note, for example, the number of bibliography additions from earlier in 2013 from two url numbers, rather than a registered and frequent editor.Catherinejarvis (talk) 16:45, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep - The article may or may not be crap, may need promotional links severely cut, may need verification for content, but that's not grounds for deletion. JMG is a active blogger, published author, and public speaker within the peak oil community as his inclusion in the peak oil template at the bottom. Tom Ruen (talk) 18:33, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete - Clearly does not pass notability requirements, sources are self-published or unreliable. Beyond My Ken (talk) 19:31, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete. I can see where he has received some coverage, but not enough to merit an article. Unfortunately all he's really gotten has been trade reviews. He has received some coverage from Midwest Book Review, but they have a bit of a dubious history at times ala Harriet Klausner. (In other words, people have reported that reviews from them are almost always glowing and considered to be sheer promotion as opposed to trade reviews from Publishers Weekly, who is often positive but not nearly to the degree of regularity of MBR.) It's enough to where I don't entirely consider them a RS. However even if we did, I only found about 2-3 reviews by them. They're considered a trade review site at best, and we need more than a handful of trade book reviews to show notability. I did find where Greer is quoted here, but that's not enough to show that he's extremely notable within his field. He's prolific, but he'd need to put out at least 3-4 times what he has now to qualify for that- and that's not always a solid guarantee for keeping an article. I have no problem if someone wants to userfy this, but Greer just doesn't pass notability guidelines right now. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)   05:14, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:AUTHOR #3 multiple book reviews.
 * Docksai, Rick. "Is industrial civilization doomed?" The Futurist Mar.-Apr. 2010: 58+. Academic OneFile. Web. 8 Dec. 2013. Book review The Ecotechnic Future
 * Kaminsky, Paul. "Capital Reform." Alternatives Journal 37.4 (2011): 37+. Academic OneFile. Web. 8 Dec. 2013. Book review The Ecotechnic Future
 * Kaminsky, Paul. "The Wealth of Nature: Economics as if Survival Mattered". Alternatives Journal. Jul/Aug2011, Vol. 37 Issue 4, p37-38. 2p. Reviews Wealth of Nature
 * Beinhoff, L. A. Choice: Current Reviews for Academic Libraries. Jun2004, Vol. 41 Issue 10, p1857-1857. Book review Encyclopedia of the Occult
 * Sexton, David. "Speed Read" Evening Standard [London (UK)] 15 May 2012. Review of Apocalypse: A History of the End of Time
 * O'Meir, Olivia. "The Druidry Handbook". The Beltane Papers 39 (Winter 2006/2007): 59-60. Review of The Druidry Handbook.
 * Mittelstaedt, Martin. "Apocolypse", The Globe and Mail [Toronto, Ont] 06 June 2009. Contains 6 paragraphs about his book The Long Descent in a longer themed article.
 * Wilson, Steve. "The Wealth of Nature: Economics as if Survival Mattered". Library Journal. 6/1/2011, Vol. 136 Issue 10, p107-107. Reviews Wealth of Nature
 * "The New Encyclopedia of the Occult (Book)" Booklist. 2/15/2004, Vol. 100 Issue 12, p1091-1091. Reviews The New Encyclopedia of the Occult
 * T. H., "The Long Descent: A User's Guide to the End of the Industrial Age." Plenty. Aug/Sep2008, Issue 23, p61-61. Reviews The Long Descent
 * Reference & User Services Quarterly. Spring2005, Vol. 44 Issue 3, p218-219. Reviews Encyclopedia of the Occult
 * Dean, Katharine. "Reference That Rocks!!" American Libraries. May2005, Vol. 36 Issue 5, p37-40. Abstract: Presents the 2005 list of outstanding books from American Library Association's Reference and User Services Association. 22 books chosen for the outstanding reference sources of the past year includes The New Encyclopedia of the Occult.
 * Conant, F. P., Choice: Current Reviews for Academic Libraries. Aug2010, Vol. 47 Issue 12, p2370-2370. Reviews The Ecotechnic Future


 * The trade/library reviews are in small text, I figure they are acceptable as further evidence of notability, though not if every review was a trade. Seems to be more than a FRINGE topic. If there's promotion in the text that can be edited, since AfD is topic level not content or who created. -- GreenC  19:35, 8 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete - While the number of books written is impressive, I'm not seeing the slightest single anything in the first hundred returns of a Google for exact name counting to GNG. Carrite (talk) 01:42, 9 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I removed Greer from Template:Peak oil to help see how widely he's cross-referenced in other wiki-article. One example is Valentin Tomberg, although its not clear what in that bio is referenced by Greer's book. Having a book referenced in a wikipedia article may not imply the author is notable, but if he's not notable for a short bio page, you might equally argue his books are not valid references for Wikipedia either. Tom Ruen (talk) 02:13, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
 * John Michael Greer, The New Encyclopedia of the Occult. p 488. Llewellyn Worldwide, 2003. ISBN 1-56718-336-0.

DELETE - I have two concerns, now that Tokypgirl79 has edited most of the piece. The first is that the article could be restored with all its puffery after the delete/keep debate is over; the second is the general sense of fakery about it: independent scholar, cultural critic, environmentalist, blogger. These can apply to anyone, including me. Can I get a separate Wikipedia page about myself? No. Closedthursday (talk) 17:21, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.


 * I'm curious what happpens to the red links from this deletion? Does someone unlink them? Tom Ruen (talk) 03:44, 16 December 2013 (UTC)