Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Paiva (musician)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to The Four Seasons (band) as it is much more well-known than The Happenings, and so would probably be a more appropriate target. (non-admin closure) Tol &#124; Talk &#124; Contribs 20:09, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

John Paiva (musician)

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Fails WP:MUSICBIO. While having been part of two notable bands, there does not seem to be enough to establish Paiva's individual notability. No reliable sources providing significant coverage are cited (current sources consist of a blog, user-based databases like discogs and last.fm, and Apple music listings) and I can't find any such coverage elsewhere; the German Wikipedia's article on him lists one source, which doesn't seem like a reliable one either. His solo albums haven't gotten any attention, and his other exploits in Germany, currently unsourced, don't establish notability either as far as I can tell.

Per WP:BANDMEMBER, Members of notable bands are redirected to the band's article, not given individual articles, unless they have demonstrated individual notability. As Paiva was a member of two notable bands, I'm not sure if the article should be redirected to one of them or deleted; I had previously boldly redirected the article to The Four Seasons (band), as the article on The Happenings didn't mention him back then, but it now does. Lennart97 (talk) 21:25, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Lennart97 (talk) 21:25, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. Lennart97 (talk) 21:25, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Rhode Island-related deletion discussions. Lennart97 (talk) 21:25, 29 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete, although redirect would not be the end of the world. I only found https://robcale.de/2013/01/john-paiva-70-years/, but there may be more in print. A database entry with no author that looks a lot like the article here, peoplepill.com/people/john-paiva, also exists, but without an author, I can't claim it's reliable, and it sets off our spam filter. I don't think either band article would be improved with the unsupported details provided in the article, and the supported details are likely already there. Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:01, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

I would argue to retain as a redirection to a band would lose the larger musical history of his life. Both bands he was noted as being in, The Four Seasons and The Happenings, are notable because of their chart success, though obviously the former is more notable that the latter. John Paiva was a member of both when they were successful and a simple redirection to one would lose that fact. Further, one would not know of his notability in Germany. His page has been retained on the German Wikipedia because to a German-speaking audience he is worthy of a page. This cross-reference to the next stage in his personal, musical history - a history worthy of noting to the German editors- would be largely lost to a non-German-speaking audience, and so we would lose a small insight to how individual notability in one region of the world can go unnoticed in another part of the world. dnd25 (talk) 19:38, 30 March 2021 (UTC+1)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 01:13, 6 April 2021 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ─ The Aafī   (talk)|undefined  08:28, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete As per nom, unequivocally fails WP:MUSICBIO. The German page should be deleted, too, IMHO - it's totally unsourced content. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 09:12, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Redirect to The Four Seasons (band). This may not help with building a consensus, but it is possible that someone will search for his name, as he is documented as a member of the Four Seasons, though he was certainly a minor member well after their glory years. He has little independent and reliable notice for any of his other works, and I'm not convinced that his behind-the-scenes work in the German entertainment industry achieves notability even in that country, unless German media covered it in-depth. ---  DOOMSDAYER 520 (TALK&#124;CONTRIBS) 01:28, 21 April 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.