Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Patrick Acquaviva (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The consensus is that due to lack of significant coverage in reliable sources, the subject of this article does not satisfy Wikipedia's notability guidelines. Mz7 (talk) 08:08, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

John Patrick Acquaviva
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Non relevant, John Patrick Acquaviva is a Youtuber whose biography includes several false and primary sources, and the article fails many notability guidelines as specified in the first nomination. I'd also like to ask for a semiprotection of the creation of the article in case it is deleted a second time. Jamez42 (talk) 21:31, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Articles for deletion/Log/2017 August 18. —cyberbot I   Talk to my owner :Online 21:41, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Venezuela-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:23, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:23, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:23, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Photography-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:25, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:25, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:28, 18 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom and per previous discussion. I am not seeing a whole lot of new content online that would indicate a reason to change the result from the first AfD. Cthomas3 (talk) 22:32, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

John is one of the most important political activists in venezuela currently, as you can see from his hundreds of thousands of followers, verified accounts on facebook and twitter and millions of video plays, but besides that, his sporting success itself is enough to mark him as relevant for a wikipedia page, he was the first football freestyler to ever carry the olympic torch and he established the first ever freestyle football academy in venezuela besides winning several national and international competitions, furthermore, this seems like a censorship attempt as if you go into user "Jamez42" page you can see he is involved in venezuelan politics as he has changed several articles relating to venezuelan political figures such as Henrique Capriles, John had his youtube account suspended due to a targeted attack by youtubers "Danna alquati" who has 300 thousand subscribers and "La divaza" who has over 2 million, and is constantly getting temporary bans due to how controversial he is, this is nothing more than another attack. Do Not delete. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.16.97.191 (talk) 23:04, 18 August 2017 (UTC)


 * This case is loosely reminiscent to José Rafael Cordero Sánchez, a Venezuelan that created news articles to include as sources in his biography, whose creation was blocked in several Wikipedias. Many of the current references in the article are broken, perhaps deleted by the news portals, or include videos from his Youtube channel that have been removed. The only source claiming he carried the torch in the 2012 London Olympics is La Verdad, but other networks such as El Impulso and El Universal don't mention him. What I find worrisome is that 81.108.17.28, the only user objecting to the article's deletion, created it again months after, and when the article was nominated for speedy deletion 31.50.208.58 and Readertv also objected to its deletion, accounts whose contributions to this date only are in the talk page, possibly being single purpose or sockpuppet accounts. His biography has already been deleted four times in the Spanish Wikipedia, and for these reasons I believe that either him, but more likely his followers, also try to promote him as an activist and as an athlete whose relevancy is not proven. --Jamez42 (talk) 23:52, 18 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Edit: The personal attack of an IP that started editing minutes after I nominated the article for deletion only confirms my suspicions and highlights the importance of a creation semiprotection. Notability of biographies are not proven by followers or verified accounts, but by accomplishments. If John has previously had several temporary bans in Youtube it makes me wonder if there are any other reasons besides "being controversial". --Jamez42 (talk) 23:52, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Response to explanation: Carrying the Olympic torch (while a very cool thing) is unfortunately not notable unless there is something that sets them apart from the nearly 200,000 other torchbearers throughout the various Olympic Games (like actually getting to light the cauldron itself). Number of social media followers or YouTube views are similarly not a gauge of notability (see WP:NFRIENDS). If he is indeed as important an activist as you claim, there should be a substantial independent news coverage of him somewhere; I personally am not finding it. Can you point us toward some? It is possible that I am not seeing Venezuelan news in my searches, so if there are some reliable sources out there, please list them. Cthomas3 (talk) 00:56, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Response to explanation:

Hi, while I understand Jamez's arguments, he needs to understand that John is from Venezuela, a country that has one of the most censored media in the world, most of the articles speaking about John's accomplishments as an athlete from Venezuelan outlets have been either deleted or the websites are no longer active due to the government having closed them (Such as NTN24), and from 2013 onwards John was blacklisted by the Venezuelan government so was obviously cut off from media access in the country, however, there are many many tv interviews of his on youtube, but I take it you dont accept videos? (If you do let me know and I will gladly make a list), besides that, there are countless pictures and videos of him carrying the torch, plus, here is the official UK embassy in Venezuela mentioning him for having carried it https://twitter.com/UKinVenezuela/status/214343370733142016 he was the last of 3 Venezuelans to carry it and since he wasnt part of a federated sport most outlets didnt find out he carried it until after he had returned to Venezuela, he explained this in one of his interviews for state run VTV (one of the biggest tv networks in the country) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG7VXwZjVSQ, there are also interviews of his in american outlets such as infowars, https://www.infowars.com/man-escapes-socialist-venezuela-backs-trump/ however I take it you wont accept a source from that site? I find it hard to understand how you can decide to delete an article due to something that is out of the persons hands (such as sources being deleted), even though there is an archive of media interviews of his in video format and on social media there are countless examples of his relevance. He is not the most famous venezuelan political figure by any means, but he is ceirtainly noteworthy to the point of being included in wikipedia. Thanks for your attention and sorry for my bad english — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C5:1202:AE00:C571:CEE9:BC4D:F2A (talk) 01:51, 19 August 2017 (UTC)


 * I am from Venezuela too, born and raised in Caracas, as well as a member of Wikimedia Venezuela, and this is the first time I hear from John Acquaviva. I won't dismiss your sources since they are independent, and both the tweet and the interviews demonstrate to some extent the content of the article. Regardless, he's still far from being considered notable as an activist or sportsman. While I'm not denying that there's a lot of censorship in my country, it's far from being "one of the most censored media in the world": Reporters Without Borders ranked Venezuela 137th out of 180 countries in its World Press Freedom Index 2015. This means that it's still possible to find more and better sources of Acquaviva. Take for instance Wuilly Arteaga, the violinist demonstrator: Google Searches quickly throw articles from El Nacional, Runrun.es, Globovisión, El Carabobeño, Tal CualDigital and El Universal, all Venezuelan outlets and just in the first page of results! It's to be expected, his violin was destroyed by a National Guard, he has been beaten up, arrested and tortured, even when the court sentenced his freedom. Taking another example, Laura Biondo, another Venezuelan freestyler, articles from El Nacional, Noticias24 and Analitica, due to a simple reason: being in the Guiness Record 2017 for breaking the record of most around the words in one minute. Without digging in too much, they both seem to have more notability and yet they don't have articles. The question should be if Acquaviva has any recognitions such as awards or has taken part of a landmark event, even if they aren't the most important ones. You don't have to apologize for your English, feel free to edit any time you want! Although I'd recommend that you create and verify your account: anonymous and IP accounts can be mistaken for sockpuppets or single-purpose accounts, specially if they started editing exclusively for voting to keep an article nominated for deletion. --Jamez42 (talk) 02:42, 19 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Question for Northamerica1000: In this edit, you moved this article from draft to mainspace. But an article on this person had previously been deleted via AfD. Were you aware of this earlier deletion? -- Hoary (talk) 07:16, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
 * That was a while ago. I don't believe I was aware of the first AfD. North America1000 07:33, 19 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Response(talk) What you are not taking in to account is that none of the articles you sent for either Laura nor Willy are even 1 year old, while John retired from freestyle at the end of 2012, and as you are aware being venezuelan, from 2012 till today many media outlets have been closed down and many others simply dont keep such long records of articles posted, which is why several of John's refferences listed in his wikipedia page are now unavailable, but as mentioned the videos are still there, including tv interviews with hundreds of thousands of views for one of the biggest networks in Colombia, RCN, https://www.facebook.com/AcquavivaFS/videos/10154360228121360/ so trying to compare Willy who became relevant only in the past 3 months and whos likelyhood of remaining relevant within a year are slim to none, or Laura, who managed to break a female world record (so not even the open record which was more than 3 times the amount she managed to break), but besides that is largely irrelevant as she has no influence in social media and is not much more than just an event promoter, doing a few minutes of search on social media will show you that John has been attacked by both the government and the oposition due to his opinions about them both, because of this he has been No-platformed from Venezuelan media time and time again, likewise with groups such as "Movimiento nacionalista Orden" who even though they are the fastest growing non MUD political movement currently they still never get invited on to any shows other than on tiny networks once or twice, I would find it hard to believe that there are many freestylers such as John Farnworth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Farnworth or Victor Rubilar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Rubilar whos main accomplishments are breaking some world records who are allowed on wikipedia, yet someone with the trajectory accross sports and now politics that John has is found to be irrelevant, so it leads me to believe that as has been said previously, this is another targetted attack on John, in his previous AFD you can even see that the person who put the article up for deletion went to twitter to brag about it saying that he was going to get Acquaviva kicked off wikipedia, which led the article to be given protection due to vandalism back then. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C5:1202:AE00:747A:77:1E3B:D3DE (talk) 11:58, 19 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Question. This is stranger and stranger. Above: the long IP number says: this is another targetted attack on John, in his previous AFD you can even see that the person who put the article up for deletion went to twitter to brag about it saying that he was going to get Acquaviva kicked off wikipedia, which led the article to be given protection due to vandalism back then. The previous AfD is here. Within it, I cannot see what you say I can see. Only admins can see the history of the deleted versions; there's no sign within it that the article was ever protected (or semi-protected). Long IP number, why should we believe the rest of what you say? -- Hoary (talk) 13:51, 19 August 2017 (UTC)


 * The only mention of the Twitter incident that I know of is in the article's talk page, commented by a single purpose IP (31.50.208.58) that also claimed that Acquaviva was personally being attacked. Strangely enough, both this and 86.16.97.191 are IPs from the United Kingdom according to an IP locator, country where, from what I understand, John currently lives in. There are lots of alternative media today in Venezuela to broadcast news on the Internet: Prodavinci, VivoPlay, VPI TV, Efecto Cocuyo, Caraota Digital, Capitolio TV, El Tambor, El Pitazo, and so on. There are lots of ways he could get more coverage even in exile like figures such as Manuel Rosales, Carlos Vecchio or Franklin Nieves, but the sources provided here suggest that Acquaviva's only a not too well-known political commentator from Youtube, and as stated before, social networks don't count as coverage in Wikipedia. The persistent use of single purpose accounts only leads me to believe that someone, or a group, possibly from the United Kingdom, is trying to push his agenda and promote him in Wikipedia via multiple accounts, and as I have also mentioned before, this is the reason why its article has been deleted four times in the Spanish Wikipedia, twice because of "promotional" content and "conflict of interests". I think discussing this further would be redundant. --Jamez42 (talk) 15:26, 19 August 2017 (UTC)


 * delete, nothing has changed in the last two years, still fails WP:GNG. Oscar_. (talk) 19:00, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete as argued by Jamez42. As this will be the fourth deletion of the article, salt in the hope of saving time in the future. (If the biographee later acquires notability of any kind that Wikipedia recognizes, a would-be biographer would be able to appeal to whoever deleted the article for the fourth time.) -- Hoary (talk) 01:18, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete and SALT - no evidence of notability. GiantSnowman 15:15, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete no citations or reliable sources. Looks self-written. Pupsbunch (talk) 18:57, 22 August 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.