Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Pendry (hang glider pilot)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. czar 00:34, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

John Pendry (hang glider pilot)

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An almost-entirely-unsourced BLP. No substantial coverage in independent sources. power~enwiki ( π, ν ) 16:23, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. power~enwiki ( π,  ν ) 16:23, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 18:15, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. North America1000 12:22, 27 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete. Lacks independent, reliable sourcing to demonstrate notability, offered or to be found. Thought topic might be sexy enough to have generated more interest, but apparently not, or at least not in the digital world. If anyone can find good evidence, print or otherwise, happy to reconsider. --Hobbes Goodyear (talk) 17:34, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep. Twice a world champion and four times a European champion in his sports, which is reliably sourced, so clearly meets WP:SPORTSPERSON. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:54, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
 * These championships do not appear to be in a "major amateur or professional competition", as specified by SPORTSPERSON; likewise, the "significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject" that he "is likely to have received" is also absent. --Hobbes Goodyear (talk) 23:54, 30 July 2019 (UTC)
 * How can the world championships in a sport possibly not be major? -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:05, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Not major if not notable. Please provide substantial coverage from multiple, independent, reliable sources to indicate that AfD subject is notable. There don't seem to be any. There doesn't seem to be a particular reason to think that there would be. --Hobbes Goodyear (talk) 08:17, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
 * WP:SPORTSPERSON shows a clear presumption of notability for participants at his level in any sport. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:36, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Where do you get this "clear presumption"? SPORTSPERSON says "...major amateur or professional competition or won a significant honor". I deny that he has done so, for lack of evidence that any of his awards could be termed "major" or "significant" in terms of WP's concept of notability. You decline to evidence that any of these awards are notable. Fortunately, SPORTSPERSON includes a link to "Main Page" Notability (sports), where the results of "rule of thumb" discussions about participation and success in competitions in various sports are collected. I observe that none of his competitions are mentioned, nor even is hang gliding mentioned at all. Again, I request that you please provide evidence that this subject is notable based on substantial coverage from independent, reliable sources. --Hobbes Goodyear (talk) 01:31, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
 * It is obvious that "major amateur or professional competition" means such within each individual sport. The fact that hang gliding and paragliding are not listed as specific sports is utterly and completely irrelevant. It just means nobody has done so yet. So yes, he has a clear presumption of notability, as I said. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:59, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 04:17, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep: A Google Books search shows that he pops up in plenty of works as a pioneer of hang-gliding, and achieved some world records. --Slashme (talk) 09:18, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep Article could do with some more work but the world championship makes him noteworthy. MilborneOne (talk) 18:19, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete. While a world championship may be notable within the confines of a minority sport, I'm doubtful that it meets the requirements of GNG which are based on "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". There are other more serious issues with the article as given in the cleanup banners. It's obviously an autobiography and it contains original research. No Great Shaker (talk) 12:42, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep. After some excellent work by RebeccaGreen, I'm happy that this now qualifies and have struck put my previous entry immediately above. Well done, Rebecca. No Great Shaker (talk) 13:11, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   08:18, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep I have found and added coverage from digitised newspapers (I haven't yet looked in Google Books, so Slashme's comment suggests that there are more references that can be added). (I also found some more information about competitions he won, but not being familiar with the sport, I have hesitated to add information that I might get muddled - eg some Australian sources talk about world championship competitions in Australia, while British sources say he won Australian championships - do they mean world championships in Australia? or did the Australian sources mean that it was an Australian championship with entrants from around the world??) There certainly is enough coverage to meet WP:GNG or WP:BASIC. As other editors have pointed out, he has won numerous world and national championships. He has also won two Royal Aero Club Gold Medals. These should all mean that he at least meets WP:ANYBIO, even if there aren't specific WP:SNG for hang gliders. I have de-orphaned the page, but if there were better coverage of hang gliding and paragliding championships on Wikipedia, or a list of winners of the Royal Aero Club Gold Medal, there would be many more links to his name. Pinging Hobbes Goodyear as having mentioned that they would reconsider if SIGCOV was found. Perhaps No Great Shaker would also like to look at the coverage. I must say that I can't see much evidence of original research, but anything that is could be edited anyway. RebeccaGreen (talk) 12:48, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep - now well-sourced. A world champion is obviously notable. - Ahunt (talk) 13:00, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep Subject is notable according to the source presented. Barca (talk) 13:58, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep Now sufficiently sourced and compliant with GNG.  OxonAlex    - talk  15:27, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep Due to changes made since the nomination and for Pendry being notable for being a champion ie WP:ANYBIO.  Josalm64rc (talk) 18:24, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep Article has been improved since nomination and documented world champions will the nod from me for notability. Papaursa (talk) 20:47, 10 August 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.