Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John R. Holmes


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Article clearly created about the wrong person, at the wrong title. Enigmamsg 16:29, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

John R. Holmes

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There is no evidence of WP:Notability. The individual was killed while a candidate for the senate. –CaroleHenson (talk) 19:26, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete It's interesting, but the only mention I can quickly find of him (the reference in the article) is trivial, and he doesn't have any presumptive notability. SportingFlyer  talk  19:31, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete fails WP:NPOLITICIAN, and with no broader coverage, fails the basic requirements of WP:ANYBIO. —SerialNumber54129  paranoia / cheap sh*t room 19:36, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete I can't find anything about him or the incident. A one line mention in a book is not sufficient to justify an article. The incident itself might be worth mentioning somewhere in wikipedia but not as a standalone article. Meters (talk) 20:43, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. The Mighty Glen (talk) 21:12, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Virginia-related deletion discussions. The Mighty Glen (talk) 21:12, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Move to Joseph R. Holmes. See this entry which added to the list of references. See also . So there are references available that demonstrate notability. Polyamorph (talk) 08:02, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I deleted the added information, it was for Joseph R. Holmes, who died in 1869. John R. Holmes died in 1892, although their stories are similar. I think that there is also confusion because Joseph R. Holmes' owner was John R. Homes, who died in 1857.–CaroleHenson (talk) 08:17, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The article is clearly talking about Joseph R. Holmes and not his owner, so the page should be moved there. In terms of notability, Holmes is very notable, see this excerpt from the Virginia encyclopedia "Several Virginia newspapers published long accounts of the incident, and papers in more than twenty other states and the District of Columbia excerpted or reprinted them, giving Holmes's death an exceptionally wide notoriety among many reports of white-on-black violence during the years after the Civil War."Polyamorph (talk) 08:21, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * P.S. The owner was John H. Marshall. Polyamorph (talk) 08:27, 30 May 2018 (UTC)


 * The original source for the article, the WPA article book, states "John R. Holmes, a Negro candidate for State senator in 1892, was shot to death by a white man in Charlotte County."


 * Then, a user added content about Joseph R. Holmes who died in 1869 for his political activities in Charlotte County.


 * Are you saying, the WPA book was wrong? These are somehow the same person?–CaroleHenson (talk) 08:29, 30 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Update, WPA book, not article.–CaroleHenson (talk) 08:31, 30 May 2018 (UTC)


 * I don't know. But if this article is deleted I will create another for Joseph R. Holmes because they are notable. Polyamorph (talk) 08:40, 30 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Ok. I would agree that Joseph is more notable. There are not a lot of reliable sources about him, but there is more - I count 4: 1 book that isn't snippet view, 2 websites and 1 newspaper article.–CaroleHenson (talk) 08:49, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes and since this is a very old event I expect there to be offline sources, including the many newspapers that reported detailed accounts at the time which provide established notability per WP:NOTTEMPORARY. Cheers, Polyamorph (talk) 09:18, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * That's the bit that has been surprising me. FloridaArmy has been banging on about how people should use newspapers.com and I would imagine that site is a go-to place for stuff like this ... yet they seem not to have used it themselves? Or is there actually nothing there? Or is that because the name is wrong? - Sitush (talk) 09:24, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I didn't find anything for "John R. Holmes" at newspapers.com, but there is an article about "Joseph R. Holmes" regarding his death in 1869.–CaroleHenson (talk) 16:15, 30 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete as I have created the article for Joseph R. Holmes.Polyamorph (talk) 20:03, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete I have to admit that I have doubts that Joseph R. Holmes is notable. Being a member of a state constitutional convention is not generally in and of itself a sign of notability. However John R. Holmes, as only a candidate for office, is clearly not notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:05, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Re: Joseph, perhaps not but significant coverage in reliable sources makes them notable.Polyamorph (talk) 07:08, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete: There are a few more books that mention his death in 1892,  but judging by the snippet view, they do not tell us more than the WPA source. I searched for a possible WP:ATD-R target, and ... found him mentioned of all places in Virginia elections of 1869: "John R. Holmes, an African American, was assassinated while campaigning for a state senate seat." and was not surprised to see the addition was made by FA in Special:Diff/831941829/831942063. I have removed it, and I will leave it up to you who know the subject matter better to add a mention of Joseph R. Holmes if it is relevant, and maybe have a look at FA's additions and adjust the intro. I have moved the article back to Virginia gubernatorial election, 1869, a title that is consistent with other titles in Category:Virginia gubernatorial elections. Sam Sailor 08:51, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.