Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John S. McCain IV


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Courcelles 00:03, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

John S. McCain IV

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This was speedied for not making a legitimate notability claim, but an editor who was involved in it subsequently disputed that on the grounds that he was notable "because he was awarded his diploma from the U.S. Naval Academy by President Barack Obama, the man who defeated his father in the race for the presidency". That said, while such a distinction might make for a day or two of "isn't life ironic?" news briefs on Page 99 of the local newspaper, I genuinely can't see how it constitutes actual notability in an encyclopedic sense. You know, WP:NOTINHERITED and all that. Barring a much stronger claim of notability (and much stronger references) than this, I still think it's a delete. Bearcat (talk) 22:00, 4 September 2010 (UTC)


 * KEEP -- As the original author of this entry, I wish to make the following points: First, any member of the fourth generation of a distinguished American military family like the McCains is notable at birth and you can't take that away from him merely by deleting his entry. Second, the purpose of Wikipedia is to make information freely available, so deleting young Mr. McCain is counter to the spirit of the open source publication. Third, as pointed out below, "Jack" McCain has already made the news and he is going to be around for a long time, and he is destined to make the news again, so why not leave his entry open for further additions. Fourth, he is serving his country, and made it through Annapolis and pilot training, which is notable in and of itself, and it is dishonorable to delete him, especially if (as I suspect) none of you have ever served in the Military. Finally, the intense desire to delete this entry shows a political bias and undermines the integrity of Wikipedia.

(P.S.: I voted for Obama. I considered voting for "Jack" McCain's Dad, but after the Senator from Arizona selected that brainless twit from Alaska as his running mate, that was out of the question.)
 * Delete - Famous father + uses Twitter. Carrite (talk) 22:39, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment – If he has the stuff of Sr, Jr, and III, he'll be sure to have an article someday. Wasted Time R (talk) 23:16, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete or redirect Unless he becomes notable in his own right, he could be redirected to his father's article as it could be a legitimate search term, but if not, then feel free to delete it. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 03:23, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete as there is no indication of notability. Notability is not inheritable.  Armbrust  Talk  Contribs  13:45, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete although the diploma incident managed to get a few news notices, notabillity ins't inherited and the news notices mainly make this a WP:BLP1E type thing. A redirect to his father's page seems suitable for now, with whatever minor mention the diploma incident merits there. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:47, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 * There are already such mentions: the John McCain article says "son John Sidney IV ("Jack") graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy in 2009, becoming the fourth generation John S. McCain to do so;" and the Senate career of John McCain, 2001–present subarticle says "In May 2009, John and Cindy McCain attended the graduation of their son John S. "Jack" McCain IV from the Naval Academy, the fourth generation of John S. McCains to do so. President Obama spoke at the ceremony and gave the new graduate an extra congratulatory gesture."  Wasted Time R (talk) 14:56, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 18:32, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 18:32, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 * 'Delete per Notability not inherited, Sadads (talk) 18:36, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete: notability is not inherited from father to son. His father's political opponent speaking at his graduation doesn't satisfy WP:MILPEOPLE or WP:GNG. Chances are pretty good that he will be notable in the distant future, given the lineage, but not today. Redirect to his father's article (or maybe even create one called McCain family if anyone if feeling bold).  bahamut0013  words deeds 21:48, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete - per nom. Anotherclown (talk) 11:52, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete, only in a monarchy or a strong aristocracy is notability inherited, and that's only because the heirs inherit positions that qualify them under WP:POLITICIAN. Yes, it's impressive to graduate from Annapolis, and even more to succeed through pilot training; however, that doesn't alone make Jack qualify under our definition of "notability".  He has to qualify for some other reason, and I don't see any evidence of such a qualification.  Nyttend (talk) 12:26, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.