Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Sherman (climber)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. This AFD is proof that sometimes editors show up after a relist or two. Liz Read! Talk! 23:15, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

John Sherman (climber)

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

A very long standing, since 2005, and short article supported only by the title character's own books. Nothing independent and nothing reliable. Undoubtedly well known in their specialist circle but no evidence of notability as understood by Wikipedia. Searches find his books and, many photos including beer drinking on a rock face and very many web pages with the Wikipedia text. Difficult to say which came firts and to determione whether this is simply 100% copy vio, but with a start date in 2005, it is likely that this is being mirrored (without acknowldgement) in many other places. Fails WP:GNG  Velella  Velella Talk 22:07, 5 May 2024 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:18, 12 May 2024 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:37, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, United States of America,  and Texas.  Velella  Velella Talk  22:07, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Authors and Photography.  WC  Quidditch   ☎   ✎  00:16, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Keep. Only just saw this now. I have sympathy for the nom as any WP:BASIC gives patchy sourcing, but Sherman is considered one of the founders of modern bouldering and the inventor of the now dominant V-grade scale (the "V" is believed to be his nickname 0f "Vermin"). Hope this is helpful. Aszx5000 (talk) 00:58, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
 * In 2011, |National Geographic did a piece on him and saying John “Verm” Sherman is a legend among us. He pioneered bouldering and invented the V-scale for grading bouldering problems. He also championed the development of bouldering at Hueco Tanks, Texas. Quite a legacy.
 * In 2022, the |New York Times did a piece on bouldering being an Olympic sport, with Sherman, saying He went on to spend the next 50 years creating new boulder routes — called “problems” in the sport — and helped popularize bouldering through books, articles and outrageous stunts.
 * In 2022, when Outside did a piece on 12 Great Moments in Bouldering History, they opened it by explaining the effect of Sherman's V-scale on bouldering, and their sister publication, Climbing, has several articles that have sections that discuss his contributions here.
 * He has written several notable bouldering books that get coverage in the main climbing media (per WP:NCLIMBER), such as the American Alpine Journal, Climbing, and Gripped Magazine (Canada) who ranked him in their 10 Most Influential North American Climbing Titles.


 * Keep Standards were far lower in 2005, and notability should not be assessed on that basis. Sherman is mentioned five times in the 2002 book Wizards of Rock: A History of Free Climbing in America by Pat Ament. On page 244, Ament wrote that in 1980, "John Sherman began to establish himself as one of the leading boulderers." I own the book. Here is coverage in Climbing magazine. Here is coverage by the American Alpine Club. Here is more coverage in Climbing magazine, with Sherman's name in the title of the article. Here is coverage in Texas Monthly. Cullen328 (talk) 01:04, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep: Clearly a notable figure in his field who has received sufficient independent coverage from WP:RS to meet WP:GNG. JTtheOG (talk) 16:58, 24 May 2024 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.