Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Shoffner


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) TheChronium  05:39, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

John Shoffner

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Reserving a seat for a couple of million dollars to clock up airmiles should not be considered a notable feat. Even if the article had 3rd party sources, you kind of have to argue that this is a one time even and that coverage is by association. Space Tourism is here and paying your way to space should from this point on should be not be considered in and of itself a notable act. Seddon talk 19:05, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep. Astronauts assigned to an orbital mission are notable. Are we going to have the same conversation with each selection (see Christopher Sembroski last month). Hektor (talk) 19:13, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I would argue we are heading full speed into a point in time where people paying for spaceflight is not longer a notable action, even if the flights themselves retain notability for the moment. Christopher Sembroski does fall cleanly on one side of this but his notability is somewhat tenuous. In that case though both his flight and selection process afford greater notability. John Shoffner wasn't part of a notable selection process and his flight will also be distinctly less notable. I think commercial spaceflight notability is at a point whereby maybe not everyone who flies is deserving of an article. Seddon talk 19:26, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep. Appears to meet WP:NOTABLE as there's independent coverage of him and things he's done and the notability doesn't seem to be temporary. This is even before the Axiom flight that's the rationale presented in the AfD and that alone would seem to be noteworthy. -C HAIRBOY  (☎) 19:45, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per Notability (people) particularly since its an event that has a reasonable prospect of not happening.©Geni (talk) 19:25, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep Axiom Space's private astronaut missions are the only missions to take private astronauts to the International Space Station. This is significant as we record these pioneering days of space opening up to more and more people.
 * This, by the way, is Adastra2022, his publicist, which might explain the rather promotional tone. AdoTang (talk) 14:10, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment - Meanwhile I checked his motor sports career and he is competing in the German endurance championship since 2015 ; his results are not trivial and he is in one of the top teams. He is in the entry list of 2021 24 Hours of Nürburgring with a factory-supported Mercedes-AMG GT3 Evo. Hektor (talk) 07:51, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 20:43, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 20:44, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Alaska-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 20:44, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Thoughts on merge and redirect?
 * Has a redirect/merger to Axiom Mission 2 been considered? Eddie891 Talk Work 23:08, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 15:46, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Still keep With a redirect or a merge we lose the racing career since it would make no sense to have it in the description of a space mission. Furthermore I keep thinking is is borderline notable based on his racing career only so with pilot of a Dragon on top of that he is notable. GT racer turned astronaut is an enough good story. Hektor (talk) 16:18, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't think you need to vote again. AdoTang (talk) 14:24, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 *  Weak delete. His racing career at Nürburgring adds notability, but that's really it. The spaceflight is one event, and if I had a dollar for each member of the 1% who wants to go to space, I'd have enough dollars to know this is impressive but isn't super notable. Plus, as Geni said, there's a real chance this just won't even happen. However, as I mentioned, his racing career sort of sounds like enough for notability, but I'm not sure, so... AdoTang (talk) 14:24, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Just edited the article to remove promotional stuff. Looking it over, I'm seeing that there are other people who competed in Nürburgring 24 Hours that don't have articles, so I'm questioning whether this makes him notable at all. Maybe the mix of the space mission and the racing career makes him notable, though it's not like he actually won any of his races. Guess I'm removing "Weak". Delete. AdoTang (talk) 15:02, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Draft/delete We may have more coverage when we get to the launch so draftifying this may be appropriate, but I concur that with the expansion of space tourism, non-professional people who go to space are not necessarily notable. "enough good story" is not notability, especially with a fairly substantial portion of Nürburgring participants not being notable. Reywas92Talk 17:56, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 16:03, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Still keep Comment - Pilot of a spacecraft which will fly to the International Space Station next year (not just a passenger, the pilot). Racing career in addition, which coverage in motorsport press since the mid 2010s. Hektor (talk) 10:37, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Struck dupe keep.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:39, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Votes too close to call. Renewing for better consensus.
 * Draft but investigate more deeply before deleting. Seems likely to be potentially notable.  - WPGA2345 -  ☛  01:49, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:CRYSTAL and WP:TOOSOON. The claim to notability here is a space flight which hasn't even happened yet. His racing career fails WP:NSPORT. Not opposed to draftify with the privoso that it can't be moved into main space until after the flight occurs. As for notability of the flight itself and the pilot.... We Will know when that stops being notable when its stops getting press attention because it is routine. We aren't there yet.4meter4 (talk) 14:42, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Peter303x (talk) 00:05, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep With reference to Seddon's comments, I don't think it's quite time yet to exclude private space travelers on orbital missions. (Suborbital flights will soon be a different story entirely.) Gildir (talk) 07:21, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep. Satisfies WP:GNG. Bungstnk (talk) 22:33, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep Not everyone who flies into "space" is necessarily notable, but, for now at least, everyone who performs an orbital space flight is notable, IMO, and he meets GNGJackattack1597 (talk) 10:27, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep/merge - there are additional sources outside the article, such as this one and this one that indicate that straightforward notability is met. Then we look at BLP1E. Here...I am going to opt that since so many of these sources are covering multiple aspects, and that "racedriver" is not merely in titles but usually get a little coverage within each new source, I'm going to say he just makes it over the line. This is not a support of the de facto status quo of "all orbital space goers, or at least spacecrew, are notable", but based on the standard ruleset. A merge could well be in order, but I don't believe it's mandatory. Nosebagbear (talk) 14:56, 26 June 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.