Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Sullivan (footballer)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   Delete. Fram (talk) 14:14, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

John Sullivan (footballer)

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Contested PROD - no explanation given. Player fails notability at WP:ATHLETE having never played in a fully-pro league. --Jimbo[online] 07:19, 18 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep. Played for England in the U18's which seems notable to me. Kevin (talk) 07:45, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related deletions. ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:05, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete Past consensus is that youth caps do not confer notability. пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  08:32, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. Promiment member of the Brighton squad, expected to play during the 2008-09 season, if not the first-game of the season when the article will have to re-created again. To avoid disruption, should be kept. Taylor159370 12:15, 18 June 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.148.167.152 (talk)
 * Comment keeping an article based on the above would be Crystal balling. Also, as per Kevin's comments, the general consensus is that Youth caps do not confer notability. --Jimbo[online] 12:08, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Response. I know it's not concrete, but the reference to the BBC Football page where it states he has signed the new contract, has a conversation with him and how he feels he can become Brighton's number one goalkeeper and therefore make first-team appearances. Taylor159370 15:35, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * That's his personal opinion, which obviously he's entitled to, but unfortunately it doesn't guarantee anything at all...... ChrisTheDude (talk) 14:39, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. GiantSnowman 13:38, 18 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. ukexpat (talk) 14:08, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Youth caps don't confer notability. Article can easily be recreated if he plays in a fully-pro league. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 10:25, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment He may fail WP:ATHLETE atm, but by any chance does he pass WP:Notability by the fact there are 3 citations? Govvy (talk) 20:22, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep He fails WP:ATHLETE - but he passes WP:Notability based on the number of nationwide articles on him in the last few weeks (which would presumably be a precursor to him passing WP:ATHLETE when the next season starts in a few weeks). Nfitz (talk) 22:07, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't see how the three sources cited in the article – one from 3 years ago saying he was pleased to be called up to England u18, one from his club saying he and other reserve players have been offered one-year extensions, and one BBC confirming he has accepted the offer – constitute "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject" as required to pass WP:Notability. The Aston Villa reserve player Nathan Delfouneso had considerably more media coverage than has Sullivan, but at his most recent AfD it still wasn't enough to satisfy WP:N. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 22:32, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Plus the fact that out of the three sources, one is club specific and the other is a regional newspaper. --Jimbo[online] 22:53, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * A quick look in Google News finds 3 national or international articles in the last fortnight alone:   Nfitz (talk) 01:11, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The major UK-sports-covering news media routinely note footballers signing contracts; the BBC routinely covers semi-professional clubs in the Conference, the fifth tier of English football, at a similar level of detail (see, for instance). You need more than that for significant non-trivial coverage per WP:N. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 07:55, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. Let me get this straight - a member of a professional teams squad isn't notable... oh boy... Minkythecat (talk) 07:58, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, that is the current consensus of the WP:FOOTBALL project, until such time as the player in question has actually played a match -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:08, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Guess WP:FOOTBALL own all football articles then. Delete it, guess you guys will have to then recreate when he plays... Minkythecat (talk) 08:12, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It's also what WP:ATHLETE says: "Competitors who have competed in a fully professional league" (my highlight). cheers, Struway2 (talk) 08:10, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Isn't athletics amateur( or used to be)? Equally, that definition is ridiculous for football - many notable semi-pro players around... Minkythecat (talk) 08:12, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * WP:ATHLETE allows also for "Competitors who have competed at the highest level in amateur sports", though obviously that wouldn't apply to football. But whether the definition is ridiculous or not, it is policy, and that's what we have to go by. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 08:17, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * That's fine. A professionally contracted player on a professional team in a fully professional league is clearly a very bad thing. Especially since he's been on the sub bench for professionally sanctioned games. Minkythecat (talk) 10:59, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete - hasn't played in a professional match yet. – PeeJay 11:24, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete - has not appeared in a fully professional league and hence fails football notability criteria. Dancarney (talk) 13:45, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete; fails WP:Athlete until he gets on the pitch for the Seagulls in a competitive match. The sources do not meet WP:N; one relates to a youth selection and the other two simply report his signing. Smile a While (talk) 23:35, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete not really a notable subject. Saying he is "expected to play" is crystal-balling, saying he is notable merely because he sat on a bench is a violation of WP:ATHLETE and does not confer notability in my own views. Recreate it only if/when he actually plays. --Angelo (talk) 08:29, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete NN until he plays, then recreate - if he doesn't get dropped or die first.Yobmod (talk) 10:40, 26 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.