Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John T. Madden


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus.  Sandstein  07:41, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

John T. Madden

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Notable only for one event, a crime for which he was not, as far as I can tell, ever convicted and which is only sourced to a student newspaper. Article subject has requested deletion via OTRS. Yunshui 雲 水 08:10, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. power~enwiki ( π,  ν ) 02:56, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Michigan-related deletion discussions. power~enwiki ( π,  ν ) 02:56, 20 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete according to subject's request. Xxanthippe (talk) 03:06, 20 July 2018 (UTC).
 * Keep He is part of a larger trend of MSU faculty and band faculty in general having forced relations with students. He may not like the truth of his crimes being published, but neither does Larry Nassar or so many others. Wikipedia has a civic duty to keep the evils at MSU exposed.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:04, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
 * ?What crimes has he been convicted of? Wikipedia has a civic duty not to function as a public pillory. It's conduct is determined by its policies, in this case WP:BLP. Xxanthippe (talk) 07:22, 22 July 2018 (UTC).

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete. Does not pass WP:PERPETRATOR, at most borderline for WP:PROF, and per WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE. —David Eppstein (talk) 23:35, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep. Going by WP:PERPETRATOR would be going by WP:BLP1E. Yet, subject passes WP:ANYBIO and WP:GNG. The subject has been famous long before the alleged violation and notability is not temporary in Wikipedia. The reference in the article to the alleged violation appears to be very brief and neutral, without any trace of defamation. If the text needs improvement, it should be improved: AfD is not clean up. As such, per WP:BIOSELF, the text offers no grounds for the article's subject to demand deletion. Note that WP:BLPD (Biographies of living persons, where the subject is of marginal notability, may be deleted by any administrator if the subject of the biography requests deletion, etc)  is a failed proposal.  -The Gnome (talk) 15:40, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep This article had ten years worth of existence prior to the one event for which the nominator states he is only notable. I believe that he was notable then and would remain so now. We must tread carefully regarding the issues surrounding his departure from MSU, but I can't support removing the article altogether. Striker force Talk 19:50, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 19:55, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep. It appears this is not one event, he was suspended several times for misconduct, over at least two years. I will add references directly to the article. Ifnord (talk) 20:06, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep. I disagree with User:Johnpacklambert about Wikipedia having a civic duty to expose evil.  That goes contrary to WP:NPOV.  On the other hand, I don't see how this meets WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE, which only applies to relatively unknown, non-public figures.  The subject has been written about, given talks where he's introduced as a celebrity guest, and has pages on soundcloud and on itunes.  I think those are enough to qualify you as a public figure.  I found all of those by searching with a date restriction of 2016 or earlier.  That being said, we do need to be very careful to back up everything with rigorous sources.  I've marked a few statements in the article which need sourcing.  -- RoySmith (talk) 21:08, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep. passes WP:GNG and WP:BIO.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 09:08, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
 * How does it pass these categories? Xxanthippe (talk) 22:51, 3 August 2018 (UTC).


 * Delete - the only notability comes from the texting incident and the fallout, including him resigning. The coverage and related interest of this incident, which is primarily regional in nature, partially stems from the Zeitgeist, which lumps this in with other more notable scandals that were much more harmful, such as Larry Nassar's.  That doesn't make this one more notable. I don't see serving as the director of the college band or school symphony as being notable, without associated coverage and reliable sources.  The latter items fail WP:GNG. This is clearly a case of WP:BLP1E. I just made some edits to correct misleading and incorrect info, but don't see this being notable enough to keep. TimTempleton (talk)  (cont)  19:40, 3 August 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.