Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Taylor (Scottish fiddler)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was Keep, withdrawn by nom. Non-admin closure Thomjakobsen 15:19, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

John Taylor (Scottish fiddler)

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A seemingly talented specialist musician (Scottish folk music), but doesn't meet the WP:MUSIC criteria for notability. The sources in the article, and the ones I've found from a search, tend to be websites related to the local folk events at which he plays in California and Texas. He has won "the Neil Gow award for Scottish fiddling", but it seems a bit too niche to overcome the lack of quality secondary coverage, and his appearance as an extra in one of Mike Meyers' more forgettable films isn't much help. Thomjakobsen 20:08, 15 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, W.marsh 17:50, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep - if he's played in the UK, US, and NZ, he would appear to have international notability. He's good enough to be on the same bill as the Tannahill Weavers, as per http://www.stlouis-scottishgames.com/eventscurrent.htm.--SarekOfVulcan 18:37, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * His playing in the UK and US has more to do with the fact that he emigrated to work as an engineer in the US, so it's not a reliable indicator of international notability. Secondary coverage would, but I couldn't find anything substantial. Thomjakobsen 19:04, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep. He has released several albums and has won a recognized (if specialized) award. Appears to meet WP:MUSIC #'s 5, 7, 9 and 10. Can't see any reason to delete the article.--Michig 21:06, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * #5 refers to albums released on a major label or one of the more important indies &mdash; from what I can gather, they're either self-released, or a couple are on tiny labels. #9 talks of major music competitions &mdash; the award mentioned here does not appear to be major, a search for "neil gow award" only gives one result. As for #10 &mdash; a brief appearance in a film where he happens to be playing his instrument does not count as "performing the music for a notable work", that's more for writing or performing themes, soundtracks etc. And for #7, there's no substantial secondary coverage, let alone coverage that would prove him to be "the most prominent" of his particular style. Thomjakobsen 22:14, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Strictly speaking, maybe he doesn't quite satisfy any of the criteria other than 7, but he appears to be highly regarded within his genre. Criterion 10 includes "performance in a television show or notable film" - you can't pick and choose which parts of the guidelines you apply. The idea that he just "happened to be playing" in the film is your supposition.  It was a $20M-budget, fully distributed hollywood film, which is sufficiently notable to have its own article here, and he performed in it, and was credited for doing so.--Michig 22:44, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm basing the claim that he doesn't meet #10 on the fact that he's credited as an acting extra on that movie. He doesn't have any music credits for it, nor does he appear on the soundtrack album. He appears as part of a group of Scottish musicians at the main character's wedding, so was presumably hired for his ability to play in a convincing-looking manner (the actual music would have been dubbed onto the visuals at a later stage, and there's no evidence he had any part in that). So it's a real stretch to apply the music guidelines to such an appearance. And again, "highly regarded within his genre" is not backed up by any substantial secondary coverage as far as I can tell, which is the main reason I've proposed it for deletion. Thomjakobsen 23:06, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I accept that although the article clearly asserts notability, the references are not adequate to prove notability. Whether or not his appearance in this film is in itself sufficient is debateable. The San Diego Folk Heritage site states that he "has become one of the most popular and sought-after fiddlers for Scottish Country Dancing, has played throughout the US and Canada, toured in Scotland and New Zealand, and has recorded albums with the dance band Fiddlesticks and Ivory and with pianist Andy Imbrie. As a soloist, he has performed at many Highland Games, music festivals, and concerts, and has played with singer Ed Miller, duo Men of Worth, and Scots music icon Brian McNeill, who produced John's two solo albums After the Dance and The Road Ahead. " This would surely indicate notability? If the article simply needs better refs, I don't believe it should be deleted.--Michig 06:25, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, it's promotional material for one of his concerts, and is very similar to all the other search results for him, so it's debatable how much of that is just a rewording of his own description. Thomjakobsen 11:22, 23 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep. Full disclosure: I am not an expert on the folk music or fiddling, but I believe this person meets WP:BIO through the multiple reliable sources about the subject, and the spirit of WP:MUSIC as well.  RFerreira 08:12, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Lack of any reliable sources is the main problem here. Thomjakobsen 11:22, 23 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep. I added two mentions in reasonably large newspapers, a few more can be found in the Google News archive. Gary North's eulogy on him should also be regarded as a good independent source with regard to the notability question. Regard, High on a tree 02:08, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.