Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John de Trafford


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   Snow Keep. Mark Arsten (talk) 14:22, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

John de Trafford

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born, went to school, married with children and has a job- seems to fail WP:NOTABILITY Crusoe8181 (talk) 11:34, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep He's a knight and he received an Order of the British Empire. Ryan Vesey 12:35, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment He is not a knight. Only the two top categories of the Order of the British Empire confer knighthood. The MBE is the fifth and lowest order and is awarded to many each year. His title Sir derives from an inherited baronetcy and we do not assign notability from accident of birth Crusoe8181 (talk) 12:54, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * My mistake, I was aware that the MBE did not confer knighthood; however, I assumed that all those with the title "Sir" were knights. At the same time, how on earth could nobility not confer notability? Ryan Vesey 18:41, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Whether or not nobility confers notability is irrelevant, as baronets are not noble Crusoe8181 (talk) 02:07, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * For transparency, I left a note at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Peerage and Baronetage to clear up this question. Ryan Vesey 19:00, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. &#9733;&#9734;  DUCK IS PEANUTBUTTER &#9734;&#9733; 18:18, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. &#9733;&#9734;  DUCK IS PEANUTBUTTER &#9734;&#9733; 18:18, 28 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep appears to be noteworthy particularly as a trustee, not just an average jo. MilborneOne (talk) 18:56, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Weak keep or Merge. Material on baronets of minor notability can be merged into the article on the baronetcy (see for instance Dashwood baronets and Agnew baronets). This article can then become a redirect. Some of the sources need to be fixed or removed as they don't work. Tryde (talk) 07:01, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep: baronetcies (one step up from most knighthoods, I'd have thought) are no longer created, so a baronet is a rare and endangered animal and should be preserved and cherished accordingly. 45ossington (talk) 07:30, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The fact that baronetcies are no longer created means that they are, in the contemporary world, a big step down from most knighthoods, as they are inherited rather than awarded for any personal achievements. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:28, 29 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep: President of American Express Bank Europe, I think running a major world bank is notable, combined with his title as baronet de Trafford, makes him sufficiently notable. RexGregorian (talk) 18:36, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Not Europe, but Northern Europe. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:23, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't see that that makes much difference it is still a very important position running a continental section of a major world bank, plus his role as trustee, perhaps alone these factors might not make him notable but combined they do. RexGregorian (talk) 23:44, 29 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I haven't looked into any other claims of notability, but must say that an inherited baronetcy comes nowhere close to conferring automatic notability. What basis does anyone commenting above have for claiming that? Phil Bridger (talk) 21:21, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * My comments came from a lack of understanding of the difference between baronet and baron. Considering my keep !vote was based on that, I'm striking it and am neutral for now. Ryan Vesey 21:26, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I can see that strong views might be held about the relative notability (and indeed merits) of inherited and "earned" honours, but I think that baronets (as well as knights) make it into Who's Who.45ossington (talk) 06:47, 30 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep: Moderately notable through baronetcy and business positions (e.g. currently chairman of NS&I). Whatever one thinks about the merits of hereditary titles, in the order of precedence in England and Wales, baronets do rank above knights (except KG and KT). Rupert Clayton (talk) 09:22, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
 * GCBs also outrank them. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:13, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep. A hereditary baronetcy does not confer automatic notability, but the fact he's chairman of National Savings and Investments should. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:14, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.