Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jon Kinsey


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete the weight of the arguments here based on policy is in favour of deletion, with Bearcat having laid out a very strong case for it under our policies and guidelines. TonyBallioni (talk) 16:08, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Jon Kinsey

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One-term mayor of Chattanooga, Tenn. No inherent notability for mayors under NPOL and this one does not seem to meet the GNG either. A BEFORE search finds no references outside his single term as mayor. References during his term as mayor are routine. Chetsford (talk) 05:31, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Baby miss  fortune 06:17, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. Baby miss  fortune 06:17, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. Baby miss  fortune 06:17, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Tennessee-related deletion discussions. Baby miss  fortune 06:18, 20 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete, without prejudice against recreation in the future if somebody can do better than this. I would caution that Kinsey's mayoral term took place from 1997 to 2001, which means a Google search would not be expected to turn up much (or any) coverage — to properly establish whether he passes WP:GNG or not, we would need to dig into archived sources, such as news retrieval databases or microfilms, and/or books. While it's true that there is no automatic notability for all mayors, Chattanooga most certainly is large enough that a properly sourced article about a mayor would be kept — and those sources don't have to extend outside his term, either, but merely have to address his mayoralty more substantively than just "he existed". But "he existed" is admittedly all that's actually present here, and improved sourcing needs to be shown to exist, not just presumed to probably exist, before "notability is determined by the existence of appropriate sources, not necessarily their presence in the existing article" (some editors' favourite choice of tactics to derail an AFD discussion) becomes a valid argument. So if somebody can find the sources to do better than this, then by all means go right ahead — but this isn't cutting it for making a mayor notable enough as things stand right now. Bearcat (talk) 17:53, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * A valid point Bearcat. My BEFORE search included Google News, newspapers.com, Google Books, JSTOR, the website of the Chattanooga Times Free Press, and the special collections database of the University of Tennessee at Chatanooga. However, you are correct that there may be non-digitized paper archives somewhere that establish his notability and I agree that there should be no prejudice for recreation in the future. Chetsford (talk) 23:09, 20 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete not enough sources to show notability for Kinsey. We need actual sources to show notability for local political figures.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:06, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep Mayor of a major metropolitan city with a population of greater than 100,000. Found one story in the Washington Post in 1999 and one in Bizjournal (showing nationalized attention to his role in his attempt to acquire the water utility), there are several mentions of his work as mayor in several books and chapters on public policy development in Chattanooga (found through Google Books) and multiple local articles mentioning his role as an influential developer since his term in office. The only thing I cannot find online appears to be contemporary campaign coverage in the local newspapers that provides more information about the subject's career. That said, what I was able to find was much more that "he existed" and every indication from the coverage I did find is indicative of broad, complete, contemporary coverage as one would to expect of a mayor of a large city. --Enos733 (talk) 05:50, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep The mayor of Chattanooga is inherently notable, and Kinsey seems to still be active in high-level policymaking in Tennessee.Kiernanmc (talk) 06:23, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Actually, WP:POLOUTCOMES says "municipal politicians are not inherently notable" and then says "each case is evaluated on its own individual merits" which usually means making an evidenced case for notability rather than just "because he is." Chattanooga is a small city and isn't even among the 100 largest in the U.S.. Chetsford (talk) 16:57, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
 * No mayor of anywhere is ever "inherently" notable. Mayors, regardless of a city's size, are granted notability only if they're properly sourceable as the subject of significant press coverage that goes beyond just raw tables of election results. Certainly Chattanooga is large enough that this would be kept if it were properly sourced — but the size of the city never, ever exempts a mayor in and of itself from having to be sourced better than this is. And further, an AFD discussion does not represent a permanent ban on his ever being considered notable enough for an article — if this gets deleted, people can still try again in the future if they can find the necessary depth and quality of sources to substance and source him significantly better than this, but we can't keep an article that's this poorly sourced and this substanceless just because you think maybe it might be possible to improve it even though you can't be arsed to actually locate any better sources. Anybody could simply say that about anything, which would mean no article about anything was ever deletable for any reason — the key to making this article keepable is to put in the work needed to show that the required depth and quality of sourcing does exist, not just to speculate that maybe it just possibly might exist somewhere you're not willing to find. Bearcat (talk) 18:46, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Killiondude (talk) 08:38, 27 January 2018 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   07:50, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep per coverage and consider possible merge to an article on the mayors of this city. FloridaArmy (talk) 13:53, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
 * What evidence of enough coverage to make this keepable "per coverage" has been shown? The only sources present in the article that count as reliable source coverage are a 50-word blurb about him and a longer but still short blurb about something else which merely happens to namecheck Kinsey's existence. Every mayor of anywhere could always show that — to deem a mayor notable, we require much more substantive coverage about him, and much more of it, than that — we do not automatically keep every mayor of anywhere just because we can find one or two pieces of cursory verification that he existed. Bearcat (talk) 17:44, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I continue to think the coverage is much more substantial, as there is contemporary coverage in the Washington Post about a controversial issues the subject pushed as well as depth of coverage about his endeavors since his mayoral term (some of which I added into the article). Online sources do not appear to exist for the entirety of the subject's term, however, Chattanooga is a large city of regional prominence, where WP:POLOUTCOMES states the mayor "usually survives AFD." I continue to believe that there is broad contemporary coverage in the Chattanooga Times Free Press and the Chattanoogan.    --Enos733 (talk) 04:59, 8 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete -- does not meet WP:NPOL & significant RS coverage not found. Coverage is routine for this level of position and does not amount to WP:SIGCOV as needed for WP:ANYBIO. K.e.coffman (talk) 00:48, 8 February 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.