Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jon Luvelli (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. T. Canens (talk) 14:59, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Jon Luvelli
AfDs for this article: 
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Fail WP:ARTIST, also the quality of the source is questionable quality WP:V, does not assert notability other than one that is a blog. Donnie Park (talk) 22:55, 13 June 2016 (UTC)


 * delete per nom. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:45, 14 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep Please note that under the "Creative Professionals" section of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(people)#Creative_professionals, number 4 states the following "The person's work (or works) either (a) has become a significant monument, (b) has been a substantial part of a significant exhibition, (c) has won significant critical attention, or (d) is represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums." After further research into artist Jon Luvelli I have found that he does indeed have 3 works permanently inducted into the Walters Boone Historical Museum's permanent art collection as historical artifacts. MarPatton (talk) 07:09, 14 June 2016 (UTC) — MarPatton (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * Is there a significance of the museum, It isn't in any shape or form like getting displayed in MoMA, the museum not having an article doesn't help either. Are you saying some art student who get their work displayed at a museum/gallery can have a Wikipedia article because of this. Donnie Park (talk) 09:16, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Further research has indicated that the Walters Boone Historical Museum holds over 100 years of significant history. Here are several facts to prove the significance of this museum - 1. John William Boone aka Blind Boone's 1891 custom made grand piano is on permanent display in the Walters Boone Historical Museum. 2. 1877 historical Maplewood House can also be found on the Walters Boone Historical Museum grounds. This home was built in 1877 and is on the National Historic Register. 3. The Village of Boone Junction, which includes the Gordon-Collins Log Cabin that was built in 1822 by David Gordon. Additional details include; 5,500 square feet of museum display space and over 10,000 square feet of climate controlled vaults and storage that contain historical artifacts dating to as early as the 1800's. To address your last comment, comparing an art student to Jon Luvelli is a completely invalid remark. Doing a simple Google search would show that Jon Luvelli has worked in the art and entertainment industry since he was a young child. Secondly a student or rather anyone doesn't just "get" their work displayed permanently and inducted as a historical artifact. The process is rather in depth and consists of going through a Board of Directors or as I've read in Jon Luvelli's case, he was approached by the Board of Directors and asked if he'd be willing to let the museum induct his work as permanent historical artifacts. Having works exhibited in a museum as a temporary display is completely different than a permanent induction. I would recommend doing further research on your end regarding the details of the art industry.MarPatton (talk) 10:39, 14 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Personally, if this was some major reliable third party source, I wouldn't had nominated this for deletion; I don't see how Streethunters are and his inclusion went unnoticed by a majority of the media. Also has any major photography magazines talked about him? Donnie Park (talk) 10:02, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
 * It's apparent that you have personal motives behind your acquisitions. First you question the significance of a historical institution, now you're questioning the reliability of a niche market magazine. Let's talk the topic of cars for example. There are many magazines that cover the general topic of automobiles and then it breaks down even further to more niche driven magazines that are about antique cars or trucks. Street Photography is a small market and just like Muscle Car Magazine is to antique cars, Street Hunters is one of the most popular magazines for Street Photographers/Photography. Streethunters' Alexa and Google ranks prove this, not to mention their traffic and reader interactions. Photography and arts is obviously not an industry that you are familiar with, therefore I would recommend sticking with topics that you are extremely knowledgeable on. MarPatton (talk) 18:03, 15 June 2016 (UTC)


 * What "personal motives", I wouldn't have an issue with it if his work was displayed in a major gallery like MoMA or the National Portrait Gallery or appeared on a mainstream photography magazine but all you droned on about is the significance of a building or the artifacts, not how significant is the gallery itself compared to the scale of those I mentioned. I would had very much left it alone if he had several feature articles in magazines such as PDN, American Photo (I used to buy both magazines), Shutterbug and UK magazines like Amateur Photographer, Practical Photography and British Journal of Photography (which I subscribe to) as those I mentioned talk about street photography a lot. Plus the cars you talk about, why do they pass? Because they get coverage in mainstream print magazines even at the time and these do not have to be nichey, also they are produced by mainstream brands. There are plenty of photographers who can pass notability guidelines but self-published book and a non-notable film and music career will not help. As you insinuated street photography being a small market, there are plenty of famous street photographers as well as people running around with cameras in streets, therefore not as small as you insinuated it to be and why I don't do much articles about photographers, because most of these I wanted to do have been done already bar one that I am working on. Looking at the first three pages at Google, I can't see any source of note other than his own social media pages and if you want to save the article of your idol, why don't you go fix the article yourself. Donnie Park (talk) 11:02, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
 * As you've suggested, I've done some research and completed a few edits to Jon Luvelli's page. This includes: A new statement and 2 Wikilinks added. I've also added him to two 2 separate Wikipedia articles. My question though, is why are you reverting my edits? If you refer to the screenshot to the right Twinkle Abuse.png of the WP:TWINKLEABUSE it clearly states that all edits using Twinkle "should not be used to undo good-faith changes unless an appropriate edit summary is used." In what way was my edit on the 2015–16 University of Missouri protests not in good-faith and you did NOT add an edit summary? The protests that took place will forever be a part of history...those pivotal moments were captured by Jon Luvelli and placed in a museum for anyone to come visit and learn about the events that took place! MarPatton (talk) 07:57, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I reverted it because I saw it as WP:SPAM as in a way of promoting your idol's work when it could had been done without. Had it had as much impact as the Tank Man or Raising the Flag on Iwo Jima, I wouldn't had considered my action. Also what you've said is strictly WP:SPAM how you edited is suggesting people to visit the museum in a promotional manner. Donnie Park (talk) 08:51, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
 * He is not my idol, he's an artist respected by many. Should I consider you a fanboy of every topic you edit? I decided to take on the responsibility of doing additional research about this topic because of the simple fact that your allegations and comments made you sound like a troll, not to mention the fact that your editing patterns and behavior are not what I consider to be in "good-faith". Instead of being a troll, you could've been a good editor and fixed what I wrote so it didn't come across as spam instead of accusing me of purposely making it look like so. MarPatton (talk) 10:57, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I called you that because you seemed to be defensive like if you are related to him. As with editing, I cannot do anything since the nomination is still in place and by the way, your article has a 70.7% copyvio which is not good. Donnie Park (talk) 01:14, 20 June 2016 (UTC)


 * keep per MarPatton Worldnewsreport (talk) 07:29, 14 June 2016 (UTC) — Worldnewsreport (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * But I nominated that for deletion. Donnie Park (talk) 11:02, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Removed the nom and replaced with keep per MarPatton due to original typo. Worldnewsreport (talk) 20:52, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I am not that active, I am not always on the computer. The reason I posted here is due to viewing Jon Luvelli's work from 20 Most Influential Street Photographers 2016 article from Street Hunters Magazine, so I googled to see some of his new work, saw the wikipedia page, clicked it and just saw the AFD mark. I admire his work and was genuinely shocked that his credibility would even be questioned, as I am a part time photography hobbyist and have seen his work for years. Oh, and btw Street Hunters Magazine is a very popular and non bias source. So I hope that since I am a fan of street photography and Jon Luvelli's work that doesn't make my opinion any less than yours. Worldnewsreport (talk) 00:07, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Then what are you, a husband and wife WP:SPA team? Also what credibility am I questioning, my point is if this article passes notability guidelines and he appears to sound like a one-notability photography like you make him out to be and you need more than that to pass notability guidelines. Donnie Park (talk) 19:58, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. NewYorkActuary (talk) 01:00, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Photography-related deletion discussions. NewYorkActuary (talk) 01:00, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Missouri-related deletion discussions. NewYorkActuary (talk) 01:00, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. --Cameron11598 (Talk) 09:17, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. --Cameron11598 (Talk) 09:17, 17 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete Not enough coverage in independent, reliable sources to verify or sustian article. Fails Wikipedia's General Notability Guidelines, WP:NARTIST and WP:NAUTHOR. There is no significant coverage which I can locate of the subject. Simply having a piece on display in what, as near as I can ascertain, a county museum is far from being, as one editor claimed "a significant collection". The Walters Boon Historical Museum is the Boon County museum . J bh  Talk  13:04, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * The quote "a significant collection" you're referring to is not in the context you're mentioning. I was referring to the Boone County Historical Society having a significant collection of historical artifacts. I see that you've made some changes on this article, do you have any suggestions on further improvements? I highly disagree with Donnie Park's request, because I do find notability on this topic for an industry specific article, if I didn't I wouldn't be wasting my time. There are enough articles on this person to make him note worthy as well as contributions to history. Regardless of what museum he's in, it does NOT discredit the fact that he covered a historical moment (2015-16 University of Missouri protests) during the climax of race driven protests, unless you're saying that the protest's themselves aren't historic? You'd also be discrediting all historic artifacts of Boone County Historical Society and other important documents requested by the museum. From what I've read, his photographs were requested and added to the museum's permanent collection...The museum's website also states the following "For more than forty years the Boone County Historical Society has collected, preserved, and exhibited historic artifacts and the records of honorable, iconic, and historic individuals of Boone County, Missouri." You can read more about his induction into the museum on this link http://boonehistory.org/about/ MarPatton (talk) 07:58, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Have you tried to argue about his notability without droning on about the museum, the event or that one website to death per WP:OTHERSTUFF? Also, "he covered a historical moment" - so do the plentiful of news photographers out there per WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS? Donnie Park (talk) 16:19, 23 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete Can't find any reliable sources to prove notability. Only his own website. Coderzombie (talk) 22:19, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Did you even Google him? I'm doing additional research on this topic outside of web sources. I will continue to edits on this article as I find new sources.MarPatton (talk) 13:15, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
 * WP:GHITS but then I've also tried an hour ago. Donnie Park (talk) 16:19, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Actually I just refreshed my search today and I found a newspaper article published by the Missourian on Wednesday June 22. Since this is CURRENT news coverage, by a notable and reliable source WP:RS, I have added some additional information to this article and cited the new reference. MarPatton (talk) 10:49, 24 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete. There's simply not enough verifiable, in-depth, third-party coverage to support him meeting WP:NARTIST. I agree with Jbhunley above, having a piece on display in a county museum does not meet WP:NARTIST criteria. The only article about him in the news with any significant coverage pertains to his piece being displayed in the county museum. ERK  talk 22:28, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
 * It doesn't take long to read through Wikipedia and notice there are several topics with less notability than Jon Luvelli that have non-conflicted articles. Simply put, this topic is notable within his industry, regardless of small or large coverage or exhibits and recognized for what he does, Street Photography. As I stated above, I will continue to do additional research on this topic, as I do other articles I find interest in and add edits from new sources on and offline. MarPatton (talk) 08:08, 23 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Technical request This AfD seems to have fallen through the cracks. Would you please re-list or close as you see appropriate. Thank you.  J bh  Talk  13:33, 24 June 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.