Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jonas Bergström


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Listed for 14 days with no arguments for deletion aside from the nominator. I personally would suggest a redirect until the marriage but that's an editorial decision. (non-admin closure) Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:10, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Jonas Bergström

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Unreferenced BLP, fiance of a princess. How is he notable? Lara 20:31, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Princess Madeleine per WP:BLP, section "Articles about people notable only for one event".  Fei noh a   Talk, My master 21:10, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 00:48, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak keep. I understand that notability isn't inherited, however, I think an exception could be made in this case as he will soon be the member of a royal family (i.e. he will be the Duke of Hälsingland and Gästrikland). Location (talk) 18:21, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * Redirect as above until he does something notable in itself. The engagement, btw, was on Swedish TV so I'm sure *that* can be sourced, preferably by someone with a touch more Swedish than me... Blue Square Thing (talk) 13:33, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak keep as he is the future husband of Princess Madeleine and will share her title upon marriage. Ari Behn and Jaime de Marichalar, Duke of Lugo are not inherently notable in their own right, but they have articles and are spouses of younger children of monarchs. Morhange (talk) 06:09, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * WP:CRYSTAL. We don't know that they're going to get married. Any number of things could occur between now and their expected wedding which could prevent it. Your argument would be for an argument once he's already got the title, in which case it would be best to redirect from this page to hers and create his article under his new title once he actually holds it. Lara  12:40, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep Let's say the engagement fizzles and he does not marry her. Shouldn't en.WP answer anyway the question "Who was that guy again who got engaged to that gorgeous Swedish princess that every guy was hoping to catch?" If he does may her the article will already be there to expand. No vital reason to delete the article as I see it, as it is as relevant as many other short ones about peripherally notable people. SergeWoodzing (talk) 18:28, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't en.WP answer anyway the question "Who was that guy again who got engaged to that gorgeous Swedish princess that every guy was hoping to catch?" No. This is an encyclopedia. If you please, look over WP:BIO and find something to use as a keep argument. Thanks. Lara  23:55, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * OK!
 * "A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has been the subject of published secondary source material which is reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject." Probably hundreds of pages already in this case in Swedish, German, Norwegian, Danish, English, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Dutch... Ref. here and on de.WP article, which I do not have time to transfer/translate right now.
 * "The person has received a notable award or honor, or has been often nominated for them(sic, should be it )". The Swedish government had to approve the engagement and thus, if you will, awarded Mr. Bergström the right and "honor" to marry the princess, who is third in line as head of state and functions officially as Regent of Sweden from time to time when her father, sister and brother are not available.
 * Cordially, SergeWoodzing (talk) 00:36, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Reconcile 1 with WP:BLP1E and 2 requires discussion to establish that it qualifies as an honor or award. As an aside, it's "them" not "it" as it's speaking on honors and awards. Lara  04:48, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I am not aware (1) that there is any guideline that a person always is to be considered irrelevant if there has only been one notable event so far. Seems to me we should delete a great many articles if so. Also seems to me that the clear likelihood of his being known for more quite soon also might enter into consideration in this case (that's what I meant by "no vital reason to delete" above).
 * I am not aware (2) that I have demanded anything or otherwise argued against discussion.
 * And I am not aware (grammar) that "a notable award or honor" can be followed by "them" in any case at all in correct English. Seems to me the phrase either must be "notable awards or honors" or "a notable award and honor" to qualify "them". I (too) am being a bit overly argumentative, I know, but I guess that's discussion (?). SergeWoodzing (talk) 11:09, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 1/ There are a lot of articles that need to be deleted; that's for sure. However, there are exceptions to BLP1E. One example is when the event the subject is notable for is historically significant. Becoming a prince by marriage would qualify, but he's not there yet, which is where WP:CRYSTAL comes in. 2/ That said, please show me the discussion that says being granted permission to marry a princess is considered an award. That gives me flashbacks to Aladdin, and I would have been as offended as Jasmine to be considered "a prize to be won." 3/ The person has received a notable award or honor, or has been often nominated for [a notable award or honor]. While singular individually, they're still two things, thus "them". Lara  12:25, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Re: relevance, it says award or honor. Ergo Bergström was granted a very high and unusual honor by the Swedish government, not an award. You can hardly be serious, can you, in questioning that, by zeroing in on the word award, only one of the two specified criteria? Why would you want to do that? I am not sexist, though you may have misunderstood me above on that (sorry if so!). Why argue now just to argue? I find that such a waste of time and effort better spent in other ways.
 * Re: grammar, it says award or honor. I am in my sixties and may have missed something along the way as to what still is or is not singular. As I have learned and successfully written English from 1953 to 2009 "an award or honor" is singular because of or being in there, not and. Hope that makes my grammatical POV even clearer than I thought I made it before. "An award or honor" is it, not they. Such as in he wanted to give her an award or honor, but she turned it down, no matter which. SergeWoodzing (talk) 15:34, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Your use of awarded is what I was going off of. Regardless, where's the discussion that concludes such an honor is notable by itself?
 * And I read it as The person has received a notable award or [a notable] honor, or has been often nominated for [a notable award or a notable honor] which would be two singulars, thus "them"; but would also be extra unnecessary wording. Lara  17:05, 31 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep - If he marries her the next year, he will be notable as member of the royal family. Therefore, it doesn't make sense to delete the article and recreate it in a few months. Surtsicna (talk) 18:59, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.