Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jonathan Williams (pastor) (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result of the debate was delete. –  Sceptr e  ( Talk  ) 09:05, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Jonathan Williams (pastor)
User:24.171.16.151 (talk • contribs) apparently tagged this for deletion and followed the link to the previous discussion, which I reverted a couple of times, as that discussion was closed. I have no opinion on Mr. Williams' notability, so no vote. — Apr. 5, '06 [09:34] <[ freakofnurxture]|[ talk]>
 * Delete: per Aryan Nations Jonathan Williams, is a Fraud, and he and the whole 12 year imposters are all fakes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aryan Nations (talk • contribs) New user Thatcher131 11:46, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete parishcruft. nn guy, just a bigot with a theology degree and the title of "pastor", if a parish priest is a bigot does he get a WP page? NO! Carlossuarez46 18:49, 5 April 2006 (UTC)


 * This is actually the third nomination. First nom closed Feb 28, 2006 no consensus.  Second nom closed March 7, 2006 no consensus.  This third nomination derives from a content dispute on Talk:Aryan Nations in whch some editors feel they are "real" members of the Aryan Nation but Williams is not. The leader of the revert war seems to be  (see below).  Regarding verifiability, Williams is quoted in the Chattanooga Times Free Press in articles dated October 2004 and October 2005 as "Jonathan Williams, Aryan Nations communications director in Atlanta" and "senior pastor of the Church of Jesus Christ Christian/Aryan Nations."  It seems like there has been a split within the organization and this AfD is the result of one faction trying to suppress the other.  Based on the newspaper quotes I believe he is notable as well, although I can see why it was a no consensus previously; its a borderline case. Keep. Thatcher131 17:22, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete. Non-notable, unverifable. -Will Beback 19:50, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment The appears to be a content dispute between a group that considers itself to be the "true" Aryan Nations and a splinter or dissident group that also self-identifies as Aryan Nations; Williams is part of the latter group, see Talk:Aryan_Nations. Thatcher131 11:53, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete: per 24.171.16.151 Williams is not only not a member of the group of wich he claims muchless a pastor or leader of the Aryan Nations but he is a 20 year old kid with no recognization be it News, net, etc, etc. 20 year old kids don't get famous for lie.
 * Keep per Thatcher, and note to closing admin to disregard the new users. JoshuaZ 18:15, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete doesnt pass Google page test.  A dmrb♉ltz (T | C | k) 19:04, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment I understand where you might get nn from, but where are you getting unverifiable from? JoshuaZ 20:12, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually there's an awful lot in the article that is at least unverified. "His views differ little from those expressed since the 18th and 19th century,"  or "His Pentecostal beliefs weakened as he became more involved with Conspiracy theorists" or "Williams holds degrees in theology, as well as political history, which makes him seem easier to stomach than some of the same element."  For a more notable person his views on religion, politics, and so on might be recorded in multiple media interviews or published biographies.  In this case I'm not sure what we can rely on; someone listening to his radio show I guess, or hearing him in church.  Which I why I think this is a borderline case; he seems to be quoted in the local papers and is verifiably a Christian Identity minister, but can we verifiy his other statements and beliefs? Thatcher131 20:53, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete Per 66.165.90.125 Jonathan Williams is a Fraud.... Kid only put in a request for page to try & gain page rank for his new bogus website claiming AN of wich he is not (Obviously). New user Thatcher131 11:46, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete Google search only brings up 3 pages with mention of his name all of wich are the same articles written by himself on noncredible sites. Does not merit article. -Yahweh- New user Thatcher131 13:43, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per  needless to say, new user Thatcher131 17:01, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete. Not only a Fraud but not popular enough. The only reason Williams would have ever been even in a local newspaper "if that's even true" is because of his fraudulent claims, Williams only fame is being a Fraud. —This unsigned comment was added by 64.37.104.200 (talk • contribs).
 * Comment That is all hear say, Thatcher you act like you have some personal ties to this Williams Fraud, please refrain from posting POV's, need not comment everytime someone votes to delete this kid, people do not need your persuasion here. Williams openly admits is not & never has been a Member of the Aryan Nations. And is not & was not @ anytime a Aryan Nations pastor as to be a Aryan Nations Pastor you must be ordained by the Aryan Nations therefore he can not even claim to be what he's trying to be known famous for. Williams is just a highschool kid, he don't no Degrees in Theology LOL & that's besides the fact he's never even met a Aryan Nations Pastor or Leader. Jonathan Williams is a 20 year old kid who lies & has not only no credibility but no proof or fame @ all. —This unsigned comment was added by 24.171.16.151 (talk •
 * Keep per neutrality! The above comments, other than maybe 2, were all posted by the same user. Williams is cited in just as many articles as Kreiss. The fact is, if you go to other racial websites and see who they acknowledge as successors, it looks as if they think Kreiss is a "joke". Nonetheless, I say keep both sites listed and both individuals listed out of fairness. Everyone involved watching this revert war take place is fully aware that it isn't going to end unless these pages are permanently protected. 24.171.16.151 is the only person vandalizing these articles. If you follow the history of this IP address, you see that this person is a "Daily" VANDAL. Besides, the aryan-nations.org site isn't even White supremacist, it is Islamic it looks like. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.19.35.56 (talk • contribs)
 * Delete per NO! Carlossuarez46. Looks like a lot of socks but the nn is clear to me. Parishcruft. KillerChihuahua?!? 01:49, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment per above: I only made one vote you retard, admins of the site can look this up & verify. Everyone see how this kid is!!! I'm not even stooping to your level kid & for anyone wondering who the above person is Jonathan Williams himself" The same person who's been vandalizing Aryan Nations, Aryan Brotherhood, Richard Butler & August Kreis III, Neo Nazi, etc, etc for the last few months" he has been banned I don't know how many times in the last two months from this site. Look him up, his ip address is 66.110.197.20 here's some of his work http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=August_Kreis_III&oldid=44738998 here's another one where he blanked a page http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=August_Kreis_III&oldid=44739215 & where he changed the link to the AN website on August Kreis page to his http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=August_Kreis_III&oldid=44908320 he has been banned more times than I can count & now has even submitted a deletion for August Kreis III page aswell out of spite. I'd like to request his vote be pretermit & deletion of August Kreis III article be be removed. 24.171.16.151
 * Delete per above. --Khoikhoi 23:22, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete as nn. I'm a cleric - where's my article? :) Fishhead64 05:40, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not a cleric, but I play one in D&D, do I get an article too? :) --Isotope23 19:51, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm a Hobbit! teehehehehehehe Thatcher131 19:57, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete, nn ALR 07:26, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete, non-notable pastor. Fifteen minutes of fame ended sometime last February. Stifle 12:35, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep the IP address listed above as 24.171.16.151 has been told repetitively NOT to vandalize pages, and to leave this page and others alone. He writes mainly vanity articles, and lists ridiculously unverifiable material. He/ She needs to be deleted out of fairness to serious users. accuratehistory
 * Comment yet another sockpuppet. Less than 20 total edits. JoshuaZ 13:46, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per everyone else above. I've had more fame than this kid, I want a article if he gets one. MLando
 * Delete pastorcruft &rArr;    SWAT Jester   [[Image:Flag_of_Iceland.svg|18px|]]  Ready    Aim    Fire!  23:43, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment per Accuratehistory: Accuratehistory is ideed a sockpuppet, he is also personal friend of Williams "maybe one of his two followers" aswell. AccurateHistory & Williams have been continualy rewriting the Aryan Nations article to something that did not happen in an attempt to get people to beleive there ludicrous claims but removing our link & replacing with there's to there new fraudulent site. All I ever did was revert it back to what it's real history has been & always has been for the last I don't know how many years it's been here on wiki. Therefore if anyones vandalizing its Accuratehistory. As you can see by looking up Accuratehistory history you will see accuratehistory he is not only the one who created this Williams page, Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jonathan_Williams_%28pastor%29&offset=20060322011446&action=history but even admits taking his picture & uploading it to the site http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Photo_-150.jpg I'd like to request AccurateHistory vote be excluded. With a Current vote of 16 - 3 saying Delete most of wich Votes made by Moderators & Admins of this site, I rest my case.24.171.16.151
 * Delete nn self-styled cleric.Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 02:54, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * keep please this is really the third time not second Yuckfoo 05:10, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete nn SCowboy 05:42, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment - user's first edit.Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 05:43, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:BIO and utter lack of WP:V sourcing of this article.--Isotope23 14:58, 7 April 2006 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.