Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jordan Brown (accused murderer)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Discussions for subsequently moving the article can take place on the talk page of the article in question. Currently, keeping...   Wifione    .......  Leave a message  00:11, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Jordan Brown (accused murderer)

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Page on an accused (not convicted) 13 year old child. Apart from being only known for WP:ONEVENT I feel extremely uncomfortable with having pages on non-convicted minors on here. Travelbird (talk) 15:03, 25 January 2011 (UTC) Travelbird (talk) 15:03, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete - per WP:NOTNEWS. Murders are unfortunately common events, and, despite the age of the suspect and controversy surrounding the trial, there's nothing of particular notability here, however the event itself might deserve mention within another appropriate article regarding the judicial system handling of juvenile crimes. I would think at this stage it is too early to have a separate article per WP:EVENT (particularly WP:EFFECT and WP:N/CA).--137.122.49.102 (talk) 15:13, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep - The person is notable as their case has been mentioned in many newspapers.WP:COMMONSENSE Racklever (talk) 15:44, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment - Per WP:BLP1E, if there is an article to be kept, it should be about the event, not the person.--137.122.49.102 (talk) 15:51, 25 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete - premature, and raises serious BLP issues (both because the crime is only alleged at the moment, and because he is a minor). If he is convicted of murder as an adult, he would probably be notable; apparently in such a circumstance he would be the youngest American to be sentenced to life imprisonment. But that's a long way off (and hypothetical), and at the moment I don't think an article can be justified under WP:BLP. Robofish (talk) 22:52, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 02:30, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 02:30, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep - The person is notable as their case is very controversial and has recieved worldwide newspaper coverage. WP:COMMONSENSE --Stroller (talk) 05:41, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep and move to Jordan Anthony Brown as a better title for disambiguation purposes. Do NOT rename to Murder of Kenzie Houk as it is the subject and his age that have warranted the coverage... not really the event or the victim. The subject meets WP:BASIC of WP:BIO. Even if acquitted, he has received national and international coverage as "one of the youngest suspects in the country to be charged with homicide". Location (talk) 06:29, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment - While I agree that is not a reasonable title in case this article is kept, it's not the only other option for a name. It's not the person or the murder that is the main reason for potential notability, but the fact that the accused will possibly face trial as an "adult". Thus, per WP:BIO1E, if kept, it should be named after the event, which is really the court case, rather than the murder or the person accused.--70.80.234.196 (talk) 23:30, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Are you suggesting Commonwealth of Pennsylvania vs. Jordan Anthony Brown? The murder and the court case are separate, but intertwined events that center on one person. Location (talk) 00:08, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment - the murder is not notable in itself. And I am not suggesting anything until (or unless) the accused does go to trial as an adult. If the accused ends up in juvenile court, then it will be just a fleeting controversy under WP:NOTNEWS.--70.80.234.196 (talk) 00:17, 27 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep and expand - Being the youngest person in the world to face life without parole is significant, no matter how you look at it. It raises important points about the U.S. prison system in comparative perspective, not to mention ethical issues about such widely recognized ethical dilemmas as life sentences and trying minors as adults. I don't see why this should raise exceptional BLP issues -- the entry is carefully written, and much more could be included that is still very much supportable by accepted evidence. Moreover, it is very, very common to have in Wikipedia (among other reputable sources) discussions of people who come to symbolize issues, rather than just the issues themselves. What about Rodney King's page? What about Charles Manson's? And thousands of other examples... I came to Wikipedia after seeing Jordan Brown's name referenced and wanting to know more about the significance of his case. I would have been very surprised (and concerned about Wikipedians' judgment) to find no entry at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.192.97.7 (talk) 10:39, 26 January 2011 (UTC)  — 71.192.97.7 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Keep - I agree with the unsigned comments above. Totorotroll (talk) 11:46, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep and expand - this case is attracting international attention, and is generating extensive media attention. Also, court decision to refuse juvenile treatment because he refused to show regret - something impossible for innocent people - shows potential to be an important issue in its own right. TeunSpaans (talk) 13:04, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep - simply notable crime/ and offender.--BabbaQ (talk) 14:09, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Once again, WP:ITSNOTABLE is not a valid reason to retain an article. Tarc (talk) 15:47, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep and expand, and potentially move. This is a huge case, and it's been in the news for a while; I think it goes far beyond the not-news criterion. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 15:08, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete - 1) Not a significant crime and the person is not renowned, so discount per WP:PERPETRATOR.  2) The press given to the age of the accused is discounted by our WP:NOTNEWS guidelines. 3) the person in question would be otherwise unknown, and certainly isn't seeking to stay or remain in the spotlight, thus WP:BLP1E.  There are many, many reasons to delete this...especially given that it is a a minor accused (not convicted) of a crime...and not a single valid reason to keep.  Any call to keep that relies on "but its reliably sourced!" should be discounted, as being sourced is not an answer to why it should be deleted. Tarc (talk) 15:47, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete per Robofish and Tarc. I am very uncomfortable with an article about a 13-year old who has not been convicted. If the child is subsequently found guilty, I suggest making portions of his article part of a larger article on the issue of criminal penalties for children -- i.e., the larger phenomenon, not the person or his (alleged) crime. -- A. B. (talk • contribs) 16:07, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Move and refactor to cover the event per WP:BLP1E. The event is probably notable, but the bio is not proper. -- Cycl o pia talk  16:28, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep Just because this article makes people uncomfortable because it is about a minor does not take away from the fact that he is an accused murderer. Wikipedia is supposed to give you factual information, the fact that you are trying to censor this jut because it's about a kid speaks ill of your ability to cope with the goings on in todays society.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pat6681 (talk • contribs) 16:35, 27 January 2011 (UTC)  — Pat6681 (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Keep --195.84.40.131 (talk) 10:05, 28 January 2011 (UTC) — 195.84.40.131 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Rename as Trial of Jordan Anthony Brown since this topic is not a biography but clearly deserves stand alone coverage in Wikipedia. Closer: There is clear consensus for move/renaming, so be please bold and rename Jordan Brown (accused murderer) to something that meets this consensus. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 12:46, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment The problem with such a page is that it is not yet clear whether a notable version of such a trial (i.e. where the person in question is tried as an adult even though the crime was allegedly committed at age 11) will ever take place or whether this goes to juvenile court in which case it isn't notable at all. WP:CRYSTAL Travelbird (talk) 13:28, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.