Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/José Domingo Molina Gómez


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was KEEP. postdlf (talk) 04:00, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

José Domingo Molina Gómez

 * – ( View AfD View log )

I know that when you see the "President of Argentina" you would immediately vote "keep", so read here before doing so: he was not a president. When Perón seemed to have resigned (for the mail mentioned), a military Junta discussed the situation. He confirmed his resignation the following day, and the junta appointed Eduardo Lonardi as president. Molina Gómez was a member of this Junta, but it was not meant to be a government Junta, but just a Junta with a specific goal, define the new president. Molina Gómez did not do anything noteworthy, besides being part of this. Yes, history books may mention him, when describing this event, but that's just a merely trivial mention. Any comprehensive history book will mention many notable people, and loads of peoples that interact with them at a given moment and then "fade away" from the ongoing events. Cambalachero (talk) 01:15, 19 April 2011 (UTC) *Speedy Keep- Commanded a division in combat Part IV; looking for WP:RS. Dru of Id (talk) 21:55, 19 April 2011 (UTC) Hate games. Dru of Id (talk) 21:57, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment He was assistant director of the national police, if "Partidos y poder en la Argentina moderna" by Ciria is to be believed. (Google books link ). The title would be equivalent to Deputy Director of the FBI, which is considered a position notable enough that its holder passes WP:GNG. He was also a general; if he commanded anything greater than a regiment, he would be considered notable per Wikipedia precedent as summarized at WikiProject Military history/Notability guide. So why is he non-notable specifically because of a content dispute over whether he was actually president, de facto president, or not president at all? --NellieBly (talk) 02:49, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
 * He was not president, period. The official Gallery of Presidents or the book "El Final" by Pablo Mendelevich, wich details all presidents from Rivadavia to Cristina Kirchner (to citea pair of examples), do not include him. The question may be whenever after removing the "presidential" claims we would still have a notable article: I think we would not. Cambalachero (talk) 03:01, 19 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep there are plenty of good references to him as head of the Army or as junta leader. Arguments of whether he was "president" should not spill over into a deletion debate as a way to disrupt Wikipedia. If you arguing on the talk page and reverting, taking the article to AFD as revenge is not cool. He is also in five other wikis in other languages. I think "junta leader" is fine, since he doesn't appear in the official president list with a number. ---Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 23:46, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep. Seems to me that his high army rank and role in the famous coup would make him notable anyway, whether or not he was ever "President", given the existence of sources to confirm this.--Arxiloxos (talk) 01:23, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep. You know what? It's possible that an article about him wouldn't exist had it not been stated (in numerous reliable sources) that he was de facto president. But that is NOT the point. There are thousands of extremely notable individuals out there who should have articles on Wikipedia but don't, because nobody has bothered to write one. The question is not whether the claim got him an article: the question is whether he passes WP:GNG. That is what AFD is here to determine. He does. He was a coup leader. He was head of a national army. He was the deputy chief of an extremely notorious national police force. People who hold positions like this are notable. --NellieBly (talk) 01:33, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep- The three books in the search are 1- U.S. but it's source is Wikipedia 2- German, Regents 4258 pages, and 3- Indonesian, line with numbered Presidency; apologies to NellieBly, he did not lead a coup - he was selected head of a leaderless group; the individual is covered 50 years later in references to varying degree on three other continents - easily meets WP:GNG, regardless of individual and source disagreements of title and position. Dru of Id (talk) 03:11, 20 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment I can still challenge those sources and explain why he was not president, but if it is agreed that he would be notable anyway, I may withdraw this nomination and explain that at the talk page. I'm sorry if the nomination was incorrect, I worked with the assumption that military ranks would not give notability just by themselves, and that this minor historical role would be too trivial to justify individual notability; but if I was mistaken, I would not keep on with the mistake. Cambalachero (talk) 03:31, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * He seems to be more like the Acting President of the United States than a de facto president, since he doesn't appear in the official lists of Argentine presidents. I think the wording I chose which is a direct quote from the Associated Press sums up his role. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 04:33, 20 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep As NellieBly's first comment states, he has held different notable roles. Even if he wasn't the president, his other titles make him notable.   D r e a m Focus  08:17, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep, basically any commander in chief of an army in recent decades is surely notable. This might not be true for small countries (I doubt that there's much coverage for the head of Tuvalu's military), but Argentina is not at all a small country.  Nyttend (talk) 13:25, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Minor roles in major events can still have a high level of notability. In this case I'd err on the side of caution myself, because a prominent member of a military Junta, ruling or not, probably meets the threshold for inclusion.  I think there is a good case for err on the side of caution here because of the potential systemic bias issue, someone who participates in a notable political crisis should be judged on national not international importance, he would be obviously notable if this were the US or Russia we were talking about (we have articles on soviet party chairmen that lasted a short while after all) so it shouldn't be non-notable just because it happened in Argentina.  I also favor a low bar for the inclusion of notable historical and political personalities, because we've put even lower bars elsewhere.  If a porn star is notable on the basis of one country-level award surely a man who, at least on paper and at least for a very brief period of time was titular head of state should be.  HominidMachinae (talk) 17:54, 20 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment if my last message wasn't explicit enough, I recognize the unanimous consensus to keep this article, and won't contest it. This discussion can be closed with a "keep" result anytime Cambalachero (talk) 18:40, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Argentina-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 04:20, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 04:21, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 04:21, 21 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep. If he was an army commander he was presumably a general. And any general officer is considered to be notable. See WP:SOLDIER, which is not official but is a good guide. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:46, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.