Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Josef Allerberger


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sarahj2107 (talk) 12:13, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Josef Allerberger

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This German World War II sniper may be a fake or at least exaggerating his exploits. The two in-line references are dead and only refer to when he was born and died. A forum states there's no record of him being awarded the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross (as does Friedrich Pein, though unsourced). On the other hand, the Daily Mail thinks he's genuine. Clarityfiend (talk) 02:40, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom, unsure if this is WP:HOAX. Much of the article appears to be non-neutral and I believe a high proportion to be OR. - Champion (talk) (contribs) (Formerly TheChampionMan1234) 02:45, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. - Champion (talk) (contribs) (Formerly TheChampionMan1234) 02:50, 28 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Note: The German Wikipedia doesn't have an article on either Sepp or Josef Allerberger, and only mentions him once, in relation to Wacker's book. Clarityfiend (talk) 02:57, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep, though a slightly uncomfortable one: He's the second-most successful (recorded) German sniper of WW2 (behind Matthäus Hetzenauer) with 257 confirmed kills, and according to John Plaster in History of Sniping and Sharpshooting, has the only first-person account of a WWII German sniper. The original German language version was apparently significantly longer (and used pseudonym Franz Karner). Interviewed in 1967 in Austrian military journal Truppendienst per this - (?partially?) transcribed here. Referenced in multiple books, eg Shooter's Bible Guide to Tactical Firearms, Sniper in Action, Out of Nowhere: A History of the Military Sniper. The discomfort arises from so much of the sourcing ultimately coming back to Wacker, which is rather WP:PRIMARY, and it being unlikely that there are many better, more-reliable sources. ~Hydronium~Hydroxide~(Talk)~ 07:19, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment: Plaster discusses sourcing re German snipers, records, and the book, here. ~Hydronium~Hydroxide~(Talk)~ 07:27, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 15:52, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 15:52, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:43, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 05:21, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete: Is this article about a book character or about a real person? There's a military person infobox, but the content is about a book. Suggest deleting as a potential hoax. K.e.coffman (talk) 02:18, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. It is sufficient that German Wikipedia does not have an article on him. Potential hoax, indeed; and it is a big problem that "so much of the sourcing ultimately coming back to Wacker"; as noted above. Kierzek (talk) 20:51, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment: The argument that "the content is about a book" is not a rationale for deletion, but one for copyediting. WP:HOAX doesn't apply, since -- regardless of whether he was really to be awarded the Ritterkreuz but this was unconfirmed, or he's fraudulently claimed this -- there appears to be sufficient sourcing (see above) to confirm that he was the second-most-successful confirmed German Sniper of WWII, and had the only such autobiography. The Truppendienst reference for Hetzenauer from de-wiki is "Interview von Hans Widhofner (1976) mit den deutschen Scharfschützen Hetzenauer, Allerberger und Wirnsberger, erschienen in Truppendienst, Ausgabe 1967 Teil I: S. 109–113, Teil II: S. 224–229, Teil III: S. 297–299." While notability arguments could still be fairly made, there appears to be a somewhat stronger case for retention than in 2008 when the de-wiki AFD ran.  ~Hydronium~Hydroxide~(Talk)~ 05:00, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete as considerably questionable overall, this is best deleted until a better article is available as this is questionable for solid independent notability. SwisterTwister   talk  02:22, 11 April 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.