Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joseph Jefferson Award for an Outstanding Actor in a Cameo Role in a Play


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Joseph Jefferson Award.  Sandstein  07:56, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Joseph Jefferson Award for an Outstanding Actor in a Cameo Role in a Play

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WP:IINFO, unsourced list of awardees for a local award, that is barely notable for its main article. GermanJoe (talk) 09:19, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Merge (as nom) and redirect only notable recipients into main article or 1 summary list article, as suggested below. GermanJoe (talk) 10:19, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

I am also nominating the following related pages for the same reasons:





I am not entirely sure and couldn't find the specific records (as non-admin), but those (especially the 2nd one with an initial unreferenced tag) may also be re-creations of former deleted versions. GermanJoe (talk) 09:31, 6 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. -- Eclipsed (talk) (email) 09:21, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. -- Eclipsed (talk) (email) 09:21, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Illinois-related deletion discussions. -- Eclipsed (talk) (email) 09:21, 6 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Merge.[was Keep] Calling the Joseph Jefferson Awards merely "local" is weak.  Chicago 2010 city population alone of 2.69million is larger than populations of 67 countries out of the world's 200 countries listed here.  Greater Chicago area is much bigger, and I am sure Chicago has more theatre activity than a higher number of distinct countries...depending on how it is measured, it may well have more than all but 10 or 15 or so.  What city has more, actually, besides NYC, London, Paris?  About calling it "unsourced", do you disbelieve that the awardees and musicals and theatres named are the ones that received the awards, do you believe there is anything factually wrong here?  Sure, these could be tagged to call for more detailed referencing, if you believe anything is suspect.  But straight-out factual stuff like who got what award does NOT absolutely have to be footnoted if it is not disputed.  And though this may not have been intended, leading the AFD with the award "for an Outstanding Actor in a Cameo Role in a Play" is a bit misleading about the importance;  the "Joseph Jefferson Award for an Outstanding Actor in a Principal Role in a Musical", which gets second billing, sounds more important.  I expect there is plenty of coverage of these awards being given.  Certainly they would be covered by television and newspapers.  The fact there exists a "They Wuz Robbed" anti-award site commenting on each year's nominations, per Joseph Jefferson Awards is an indication of GNG coverage.  So these meet Wikipedia wp:GNG standards, and then we are done here, right?  Note that we are NOT faced with a separate article for each year, like we are for each of a zillion different sports competition series.   About the disambiguation-needed tags, those will be cleared quickly;  i just cleared 14 of them, easily.  About these having been deleted previously perhaps, provide links, please.  But overall it seems like fairly obvious KEEP to me. -- do  ncr  am  13:10, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
 * "Local" was used for a geographical area, not as a qualitative judgement on Chicago or its importance. The award is focussed on Chicago's "local" theatrical life, but I concede that the usage in that context was probably misleading - sorry for that. The award's main article is not the issue here anyway, the excessive listing of every single award in history in up to 80 articles is (if all award sub-types are similarly included in future). Such content is better covered on the award institution's main page (where it is already available). On a sidenote, I agree with your concern about other overly detailed statistic pages, but that's a different discussion for another day. GermanJoe (talk) 13:57, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Glad to see we are not so far apart, thanks. The Joseph Jefferson Award article is a good length, and it makes sense to split this out.  I don't believe there are 80 different awards...hmm there may be about 62, counting for lighting, landscaping, etc.  There's no indication yet that anyone is trying to create coverage of all of these;  what is being discussed are relatively major ones.  Also, the three articles are no longer unreferenced. -- do  ncr  am  16:03, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:IINFO. Even if Joseph Jefferson Awards are notable (unestablished as currently written), every award they bestow every year may not be, i.e. Non-Equity Joseph Jefferson Award for an Outstanding Actor in a Cameo Role in a Play. A simple list of awards (not awardees) on Joseph Jefferson Award, and single external link to awards section, should be sufficient coverage on Wikipedia. --Animalparty! (talk) 19:10, 6 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Merge to the main Joseph Jefferson Award article. There is no reason to have a seperate article for this award.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:36, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment. I may be shooting myself in the foot here, relative to how I !voted.  But once I understand how the lists work, I see that the three articles do not cover a huge amount of material.  They cover awards given to 6, 38, and 4 award recipients, respectively, if i count correctly.  There are also many nominees listed, both when an award is given to someone else and when no award is granted.  And there are many redlinks among the award recipient names, even some among the cameo performers who are supposed to be celebrities already.  Many of the actors, especially those who have won multiple awards, are likely to be Wikipedia-notable, so many of the redlinks can be turned blue, but bottomline there is room for improvement in coverage in this general area besides by making list-articles like these three (specifically: develop articles about most important individual actors in the region, and develop articles about the specific theatres which are no doubt all Wikipedia-notable).  Perhaps the main article for the awards could be modified to list the so-far-not-too-many award recipients only, for now, and the three articles under discussion could be redirected to the main article (i.e., the three articles could be merged).  But with understanding that if the main article grows to be too large, sections can be split out (per usual Wikipedia processes) without requiring return to AFD venue for permission.
 * Also I wish the articles' creator, who has not edited since this AFD started, would participate in discussion here, but we can't know what is going on in their lives or whether the AFD process is too overwhelming or what, so I would not want their non-participation here to be held against them. They might think they have conflict of interest issues and think they cannot.  If they do in fact have close association association with the topic they are writing about, as often happens for arts and other nonprofits and even for-profit topics in Wikipedia, they are nonetheless to be welcomed (they have info and expertise).  Our wp:COI policies explicitly allow them to create articles and to participate in discussions.  But again maybe they don't want to for privacy reasons, or because they are too discouraged by the built-in negativity of AFD processes, or for or other reasons we cannot fathom. -- do  ncr  am  13:03, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I think, this is a good compromise suggestion to avoid excessive listcruft, and to preserve notable information at the same time. To allow further improvements, a separate "List of (notable) recipients" would probably be the best approach (incl. a "See also" to that list from the main article). I have expanded my nomination statement above to reflect that. GermanJoe (talk) 10:19, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –  Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 23:11, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Merge per above. FoCuS contribs ;  talk to me!  22:23, 20 August 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.