Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joseph Liebgott


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.  MBisanz  talk 20:10, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

Joseph Liebgott

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Joseph Liebgott was an enlisted man with E Company, 2nd Battalion, 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment during World War II. He parachuted into Europe twice and fought in Normandy, the Netherlands, and Belgium. He did not attain rank or receive awards to qualify him under WP:SOLDIER and his later life was generally non-notable. His portrayal in Band of Brothers on TV is not as a major character. Jim in Georgia Contribs  Talk  13:56, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions.  Jim in Georgia  Contribs  Talk  14:01, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of USA-related deletion discussions.  Jim in Georgia  Contribs  Talk  14:01, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  Jim in Georgia  Contribs  Talk  14:01, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions.  Jim in Georgia  Contribs  Talk  14:01, 12 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Weak keep - I don't find anything on newspapers.com or geneaolgybank.com (a newspapers service similar to newspapers.com but that does not do clippings) about Liebgott as an adult. There is a notice in the Oakland Tribune (on January 6, 1935, p6) about the golden wedding anniversary of his grandparents, Thadeus and Barbara. This notice gives some biographical information about them and their move from Hungary to Detroit to the Bay. There is a series of articles about his mother, who left the family for a short time in 1929. When she rejoined the family, an article was written which includes the names of Joseph's siblings (Oakland Tribune (Oakland, CA) July 23, 1929, page 48). None of this really contributes to his notability, but it does give more flesh to what is possible to write about his early life based on reliable sources. There are a number of trivial notices likely about his participation in youth activities and sports, such as from genealogybank.com in 1927, there was a Joseph Liebgott who was a member of St. Anthony's Boys Choir and is in a picture in the San Francisco Chronicle (Saturday, October 8, 1927, p 31). There is also a 1933 marriage notice on geneaolgybank.com for a "Joseph D. Liebgott, 18" and "Frances N. Lomas, 15" both of San Leandro (San Francisco Chronicle (San Francisco, California), Friday, July 28, 1933, p 13) but it is not clear to me that these are definitely the same figure and thus including these in the article would probably be OR.
 * The main reason I do not !vote delete, then, has to do with his story's inclusion in WWII literature beyond writings having to do specifically with the band of brothers. I think the stories about him in non-band of brothers focused books repeats what can be read in band of brothers-focused books and in this article. Such non-band of brothers-focused sources discuss Liebgott with one or two paragraphs of anecdote and include:
 * Schrijvers, Peter. Those who Hold Bastogne: The True Story of the Soldiers and Civilians who Fought in the Biggest Battle of the Bulge. Yale University Press, 2014. p113
 * Beevor, Antony. Ardennes 1944: The Battle of the Bulge. Penguin, 2016. p352
 * Lewis, Tom. Lethality in Combat: A Study of the True Nature of Battle. Big Sky Publishing, 2012. p128
 * Also, outside of what is currently in the article, he is included in depth in other books by other authors which focus on band of brothers figures:
 * Alexander, Larry. Biggest Brother: the life of Major Dick Winters, the man who led the Band of Brothers. Penguin, 2006. p10, 11, 18, 67, 89, 90, 99
 * Kingseed, Cole. Conversations with Major Dick Winters: Life Lessons from the Commander of the Band of Brothers. Penguin, 2015, p110, 127
 * Ooms, Ronald. Silver Eagle: The Official Biography of Band of Brothers Veteran Clancy Lyall. Pneuma Springs Publishing, 2013. p58, 69, 112
 * Given multiple stories about his actions as a soldier are included in non-band of brothers books and the rather large role he seems to play in the books (in spite of perhaps playing a minor role in the TV show), it seems to me that this article passes V, NPOV, NOR, and satisfied GNG (if only just). Smmurphy(Talk) 18:00, 12 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Comment I took the liberty of correcting the url on one book.
 * Delete -- the sources listed above do not strike me as sufficient. For example, the "official bio" of Clancy Lyall was written by a persona friend: "Thanks to his close friendship with WW2-veteran Clancy Lyall, of the famous Band of Brothers, he was able to write a book about the life of this paratrooper called 'Silver Eagle: the official biography of Band of Brothers veteran Clancy Lyall." It's published by a small-time publisher. "Discuss Liebgott with one or two paragraphs of anecdote" is also insufficient. K.e.coffman (talk) 05:05, 14 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete -- The article is about a character in a book and TV series. As such, the subject is semi-fictional, based on memories of people who knew the individual over 70 years ago:  memories that might or might not be factual.  As a member of the subject's family, I know that much of what has been published about him is not true, but is the conjecture of his "buddies".  If this article is about a "TV character", then it does not reflect the real man.  If the article is about the real man, then he is not notable enough for an article.  Eastcote (talk) 01:58, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Michigan-related deletion discussions.  Jim in Georgia  Contribs  Talk  00:57, 17 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete. This seems like an interesting person, even if only half is true, but he was not notable. Bearian (talk) 16:04, 22 May 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.